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 Post subject: Re: Astor's private car
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:31 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:26 am
Posts: 59
Location: Princeton, NJ
Al, sent you a PM.
Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Astor's private car
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:15 am 

Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:17 pm
Posts: 9
Paul,,

I can't seem to find your PM. Email me at <dlw1155@yahoo.com>.

Thanks,

Al Holleuffer


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 Post subject: Re: Astor's private car
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 473
Location: Orrville, OH
Al Holleuffer wrote:
At one time, the Kellers had another restaurant in West Orange, N.J., called The Essex House which also has a PV there.

Ahhh.... I thought that Rod's and Essex House were the same thing. Makes more sense now. Disregard my previous comment.

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 Post subject: Re: Astor's private car
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:17 pm
Posts: 9
The Keller family sold the Essex House quite some time ago. I'm not sure if the current owners are the original buyers but, even so, the ambiance and service went downhill quickly after the initial sale. For several years, it was closed for general dining, only offering
catering but reopened to the public a couple of years ago. My wife and I celebrated my 70th birthday there two years ago and dined in the car. It was OK but nowhere near as good as under the Kellers, especially for the price we felt. They had repaired a leak in the roof that damaged some of the beautiful inland woodwork and restored it fairly well but the exterior of the car is in need of some serious TLC.

During the time they did only catering, they had plans to enlarge the main building which would have necessitated either moving or disposing of the car which had not been used for a while. The West Orange Planning Board turned down their variance application which may have been the reason they reopened for general dining.

I'm old West Orange boy and have followed this ever since Rod opened it. One of the biggest problems I encountered when trying to find some one to take the car is that the manager had somebody lead him to believe it could be put back on live rail and tacked onto Amtrak trains. It is a classic historically significant car tied mostly to the copper railroads and would be a great addition to, say, one like the Nevada Northern or the Virginia & Truckee. One group out there also tried to acquire it but could barely justify the transportation cost to bring it home. I know it once ran on the NN so that would be a most appropriate place to give it a secure home, as I see it.

Al


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 Post subject: Re: Astor's private car
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:06 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 449
My recollection is that the late Carmine Toto, Sr. of Madison, NJ performed much of the renovation on the two cars at Rod's and the one car at Essex House, when they were being adapted for restaurant use by the Kellers. I believe that Mr. Toto's son, Carmine, Jr., still operates the family business, as well as a wine-making business with his son, Carmine III, in Madison.

The Essex House car has been discussed before. It appears to have been first made available in 2002:

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4312&p=19751&hilit=essex+house&sid=cae5e864095eef20b1174b936cef1b3c&sid=59a650da1cf6f36c373f3cbe586203cc#p19751

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31524&p=183208&hilit=essex+house&sid=cae5e864095eef20b1174b936cef1b3c&sid=59a650da1cf6f36c373f3cbe586203cc#p183208


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 Post subject: Re: Astor's private car
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:25 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:26 am
Posts: 59
Location: Princeton, NJ
Back to the Oceanic...can anyone give further info on the history of the car? Ownership history? How did it make its way from the Astor family to the restaurant where it is today?

I'd love to find the build records for it too.

Thanks for any help!

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Astor's private car
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:07 pm
Posts: 1
Additional information is available for the Oceanic.
The car is listed on page 68 of the book "A Century of Pullman Cars Volume II: Palace Cars" by Ralph L. Barger, as built in Palace Car Works Detroit in June 1877 on Lot 45 (Detroit) to Plan 63, originally as the Atalanta, converted to Plan 63R on 11/99 to Private car Oceanic, and sold 10/13 to General Charles Miller.
There is a picture of the Atalanta on that page, and a photograph of sister car Cleopatra after rebuild to Plan 63I on the facing page. Both photographs are available from the Smithsonian Institution.

More information is available from the Pullman Library at the Illinois Railway Museum, which has the different Plan 63 floor plans with the appropriate suffix letters and in soime cases follow on numbers after the letter. There is also a list of Plan 63 drawing numbers in a special book of drawing numbers by plan number going to Plan 200. This helps in tracking carts built to that plan number as they go from the original Plan 63 "hotel car" to the various rebuild versions. You may contact the Pullman Library curator, Bob Webber, c/o pullmanlibrary@irm.org for availability and pricing of copies from the original pages and drawings.

Sincerely, Ted Anderson, now a retired occasional volunteer


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 Post subject: Re: Astor's private car
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:44 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:26 am
Posts: 59
Location: Princeton, NJ
Thanks Ted, that is very useful!


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 Post subject: Re: Astor's private car
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:53 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:26 am
Posts: 59
Location: Princeton, NJ
Hi Ted,

Do you know if there is a picture of Atalanta online somewhere? Preferably a period one.

Thanks,
Paul


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