It is currently Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:42 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: CN 5080 Update
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:06 am 

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:13 pm
Posts: 31
I dug out some memorabelia along with a few standard gauge Lionel trains for a very small display at a model train display outside of S'toon on the weekend. Among the chattel were the Pyle National headlight and CNR McAvity boiler gauge destined for #5080.

Thom

Image


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CN 5080 Update
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:31 am 

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:13 pm
Posts: 31
Close up of the boiler gauge. (Not the original to #5080, but one I acquired several years ago to replace the vandalized one currently in the cab.)

Thom

Image


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CN 5080 Update
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:25 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Ontario, Canada.
How is ABSA to deal with regarding welding repairs to a boiler? Also, does it allow mechanical repairs such as stays, piping, and tubes to be done by the owners, or does one need a certified shop for these?
Does Transport Canada have any concern with railway boilers any more?
Best of luck with CNR 5080. It should be a very rewarding project.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CN 5080 Update
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:55 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:13 pm
Posts: 31
Hello Great Western

RE: Welded repairs -do you mean new repairs that require welding or pre-exisiting repairs that were welded when the locomotive was in service with Canadian National?

RE: Owner repairs - I am planning a meeting with ABSA about this for clarification, but typically as long as the repair is done by individuals who have demonstrated their competency to the satisfaction of the jurisdiction (and have the required certification, if necessary) -AND- the repair is done according to a registered Quality Management program - certain minor non-welded 'repairs' or 'maintenance' done to pressure components by the 'owner' should be permissible. However, major repairs/alterations, including welding (ASME Section 1, VIII-1, B31.1) will have to be subcontracted owing to the certification/registration required.

RE: Transport Canada - Yes and no. On Federal railways, YES Transport Canada is still involved with steam locomotives, they are to be 'inspected and maintained in accordance with RAC Steam Locomotive Safety Inspection Circular No. MC 3'.

Here's a link to the Transport Canada website - https://tc.gc.ca/eng/railsafety/rules-tco76-342.htm?pedisable=true&wbdisable=true

On privately owned shortlines, or closed loop railways that do not fall under the auspices of Federal railway regulations, OR the Province does not have a Letter of Understanding with Transport Canada -then NO, the steam locomotive falls under the respective Provincial regulators (boiler branch, track inspector, ect).

EDIT* - I clarified the scope of the answer with a contact at Transport Canada to ensure it is correct. Thanks A.

Thom


PS - Great Western - You don't happen to hail from Cowbloat Corner I suppose?


Last edited by RoyalwithCheese on Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:08 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CN 5080 Update
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:32 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Thank you. For welded repairs, I was thinking of new welding such as a patch, etc.
Most locos I have seen, especially in the firebox, have had plenty of past welding repairs, so one would hope that ABSA is good to go on that? Documentation might not be available on some or all of those old repairs.
The old cow dried up.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CN 5080 Update
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:57 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:13 pm
Posts: 31
Great Western - I'm on lunch break, so I have to answer quickly. If I make a mistake, I'll edit it later.

Old Repairs - One of the reasons acquiring the original blueprints is such a big deal is that they may apparently show the repairs done to the boiler over it's lifetime, with dates and notes that may lead to further documentation which will help with registration. Otherwise all other 'vintage' repairs and/or alterations, subject to request by ABSA will require thorough inspection and NDE such as mag-flux, x-ray, calculations, ect. If the inspections reveal results that meet the stringent requirements of ABSA, excellent. If not, the previous repairs will have to be removed and re-done according to modern standards/code requirements.

New Repairs - a little more complicated but hopefully through educated discussion with ABSA we can come to an understanding. All boiler/pressure vessel/pressure piping repairs will have to be done under a registered Quality Management program. Major repair/alterations (welding) will have to be subcontracted to a company or individual that is registered with ABSA to preform the required repairs as per the Alberta Safety Codes Act. 'Historic' (my wording) repair procedures (example - replacing/installing threaded stays with the same as opposed to replacing with welded stays) may be permissible in accordance to the original Code of Construction (again, thanks to the availability of the original boiler design blueprints/supporting documentation). There is presidence set for this, but an open and informed dialogue with ABSA will define the scope of what is and what is not permissible. 'Minor' maintenance work and 'minor' repairs (non-welding) may be permissible by the 'owner', again subject to authorization by ABSA, provided it is done within the scope of the registered Quality Management program.

Either way, there are a lot of discussions to be had and planning ahead of us, but it is all very achievable.


Thom


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CN 5080 Update
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:58 pm
Posts: 62
Thom,
Wonderful news about Delson providing the boiler prints. I wonder if the thermic syphons were original, or installed later in its life..?

My reference to the cab condition of 5080 was partly based on what 2816 looked like at Scranton PA, when CP acquired her in 1998. There was even a small tree growing up through the tender, among other things...and this was a National Park site.

Dennis C.


Attachments:
2816 Scranton 1998 Cab 3.jpg
2816 Scranton 1998 Cab 3.jpg [ 228.35 KiB | Viewed 774 times ]
2816 Scranton 1998 Cab.jpg
2816 Scranton 1998 Cab.jpg [ 241.7 KiB | Viewed 774 times ]
2816 Scranton 1998 Cab 1.jpg
2816 Scranton 1998 Cab 1.jpg [ 218.33 KiB | Viewed 774 times ]
2816 Scranton 1998 Cab 2.jpg
2816 Scranton 1998 Cab 2.jpg [ 234.46 KiB | Viewed 774 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CN 5080 Update
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 938
Location: Warszawa, Polska
I'm curious about the Signal Foam Meter on 5080. Is there just one electrode going into the boiler? All the literature I've seen on the system shows two separate electrodes, but as far as I can tell the system used on CN engines had just one.

_________________
CNR 6167 in Guelph, ON or "How NOT To Restore A Steam Locomotive"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CN 5080 Update
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:58 pm
Posts: 62
joe6167 When you refer to the Foam Meter on 5080..is this what we are talking about.?
Still on the backhead....with the access door open...on the upper left..?


Attachments:
foam2.jpg
foam2.jpg [ 320.3 KiB | Viewed 702 times ]
20190410_145457_Burst01.jpg
20190410_145457_Burst01.jpg [ 162.57 KiB | Viewed 702 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CN 5080 Update
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:03 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:13 pm
Posts: 31
joe6167 - Climbing around on #5080 I observed it has has 2 electrodes.


For those who are unfamiliar, the foam meter comprised of;

- 2 electrodes in the boiler, mounted in the steam space from the
top of the boiler, just in front and above the crownsheet. They were of
different length.
- In the center of the cab was mounted the 'foam meter' display box which
had 2 lights and a bypass switch.
- The 'foam meter' was connected to an electro-mechanical or air actuated
blowdown valve, discharging either from the side of the mudleg of the
firebox, the steam space above the crown sheet or both.

It worked like this;

- If the locomotive was foaming (unbroken steam bubbles accumulating on
top of the water as a result of high alkalai or other dissolved solids), the
first (longer) electrode would contact the foam layer, ground out and
cause the warning light to illuminate on box in the cab.
- If the second electrode made contact with the foam layer, current would
pass between the two electrodes, the second warning light would come on
(flashing) and after a few seconds, the blowdown valve(s) would
open automatically. The bypass switch allowed the engineer/fireman to
prevent the blowdown valve from opening should it not be desired to do so
(such as sitting at a station, in the roundhouse, on the shop track, ect. or
when the boiler was being filled for a hydrostatic test by the shop crew.)

As a side note, the door on the foam meter in #5080 was one of the things I found in the field beside the engine that I put back in it's place.


Thom


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CN 5080 Update
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:05 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:30 am
Posts: 624
RoyalwithCheese wrote:
Some huge news today - Through the work of some friends at Exporail in Montreal (Mylene Belanger, Archivist and Jean-Paul Viaud, Curator), we have located the original blueprints for the boiler of #5080.

The entire archives for MLW are at Exporail. I got the blueprints for ETR#9, now operating in Waterloo, Ontario, there about 25 years ago.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CN 5080 Update
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:16 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:08 pm
Posts: 64
Location: Alberta, Canada
Yep, those MLW records are invaluable. We have gotten info for CN 1392 on multiple occasions.

_________________
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CN 5080 Update
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:14 am 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 938
Location: Warszawa, Polska
Where along the boiler are the two electrodes located?

I was able to get some photos of 5093 some years ago, and all I could see was the one electrode, just ahead of the cab, and I've wondered if the second electrode was installed above the boiler, but inside the cab.

_________________
CNR 6167 in Guelph, ON or "How NOT To Restore A Steam Locomotive"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CN 5080 Update
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:15 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:13 pm
Posts: 31
joe6167

Al Broadfoot and I will be going to Regina to take a closer look at #5093. I'll snag a few pics of the electrode ass'y for you.

For those who don't know and are curios just what the heck we're talking about, here's the advertisement and schematic from the 1941 Locomotive Cyclopedia.

Thom

Image

Image

Image


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CN 5080 Update
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:58 pm
Posts: 62
Thom,
Great news about you and Al B. and 5093.
From this internet photo, I see the two engines are very similar. CN 5080 being a J-4-a, MLW 1914, and 5093 is a J-4-c. MLW 1918.

Any idea when you and Al are driving to Regina..?

Dennis.


Attachments:
26127_155_.jpg
26127_155_.jpg [ 241.26 KiB | Viewed 265 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Crescent-Zephyr, Exabot [Bot], Rader Sidetrack and 32 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: