Seems like the value of #643 as a static display (especially in comparison to the alternative-- being cut up onsite) outweighs the possibility or the need for it to ever be restored to operation. Cut it up into movable sections as was done to one of the N&W "Lost Locomotives of Roanoke" 15 years ago and then weld it back together at its new display location. I know that was a much smaller locomotive, but still...

For the first time in a long time, I looked at the locomotive and it's location really closely. It's about 120 feet from the siding.

I don't see why it can't be shifted sideways and loaded onto flatcars. Maybe in once piece, maybe you remove the boiler from the running gear.

You bring in cranes and cribbing. You pick the boiler (or whole engine) up and swing it as far as you can. No, you can't go 120 feet. Fine, you set it down on cribbing. Move the cranes, do another sideways lift. Do it again and again. At some point, your last pick places it onto a flatcar.

OK, it's slow, it's tedious and cranes rent by the hour for big money. I understand that. But building a temporary track isn't cheap either and I doubt its going much of anywhere on its own wheels. So you disassemble it into pieces, you load it on flatcars and you ship to wherever it's going.

Why is that impossible? It's not cheap, I get that. But it's relatively easy. You might need to bring in some crushed rock and do some grading. But all in all, it seems quite possible.

Impossible...no
Cheap....not at all

but add that to the $375,000 asking.....and the owner has backed out of deals before.

I hope it doesn't become another sad story like GTW 5629.

What happens if the engine isn't moved in time? You might be better off dealing with the property owner. It will take money to move OR scrap it. I am guessing that Mr. Campbell doesn't want to pay for either. I say let the clock run out and then work with the most reasonable party.

A secondary question; where can she actually run? She weighs 523,600 lbs. With the tender 906,990 lbs. Top speed is roughly 30mph. Wheelbase is 95 ft+ and scrap value is about $50k.

This seems to be an academic exercise in preservation.
Huge locomotive.
Long wheel-base.
Relic of a great railroad in the region.
Nobody wants to see her destroyed.
Museums have shallow pockets.

Solutions:

Panel track to safe ground.
Engage CSX (I know, unlikely at best).
Deal with NS (Less unlikely, but still in that category.)
Deal with new land owner.
Bring in McKeesport local government.
Hope some collection known to have somewhat deeper pockets has already worked the problem.

What else do you have?

Seems like saving the N&W water car and the Alco S1 would be easier. Both could leave on semi trailers. Maybe remove the cab from the S1 first. We don't want to see another Monon SW type event.

BL&E 643's best bet would be to be moved by rail dead in tow. Problem is CSX hasn't been all that willing to move steam locomotives. NS on the other hand has moved stuff at no cost for various preservationist.

How hard would it be to crane it onto the live track just beyond her present location? Is it CSX or NS?

Robert

A very cheap, quick way to get it on CSX rails (leaving aside for a second whether CSX wants it there) would be to unbolt the siding the engine is on and the nearby siding and use bulldozers to drag the unconnected ends together so that they can be connected, I saw this done by Illinois Central Gulf once on an important spur with bad track to bypass several derailed hopper cars, it was done in several hours by about ten men. It would avoid frogs and switch points etc and can be reversed fairly quickly. The big question is CSX agreeing to any of this, but at least it is technically feasible (though the wheelbase of 643 would make it tricky).

So this engine has all plain bearing axles, correct? With 6 years of outside storage, how likely is it to be ready to roll? Hopefully it’s good to go, but I can imagine all the journals having flash-rusted.

I think I recall that the main is now at a lower grade than the spur.

Hugh, Good question? Anything is possible though with a few dedicated individuals and some time. Really is going to depend on how bad a group or even one person wants to save this locomotive.

I wonder how easy it would be to get the Alco S1 running? ( Yes, The wheels are barely legal on the S1) The switchers flanges are thin. Use the switcher to move the 643 to a safer location even if that means cutting and splicing track. Could the S1 drag the 643 and water tender down the line under CSX supervision to another siding? Most likely yes. Although having CSX use their own switcher set for the area's locals might be a safer bet.

Robert

CSX isn’t directly against moving steam. They are going to move 2716 and have been very generous lately with dotating and restoring things. If a genuine offer was made to CSX to help, I’m sure they would.

Ex-C&O 2716 is equipped with roller bearings on all axles. The plain-bearing tender is being converted to roller bearings prior to its move.

If this locomotive has been "retired" since BEFORE Part 230, it will need a complete 1472 before it can operate again. If the locomotive was certified under Part 230 AND had its mandated FRA inspections kept up to date to keep it out of the Part 230 "retired" category, it has only a few years remaining on its FRA ticket, a very big problem. For a loco this size, the cost of PART 230 compliance will be in excess of $1,000,000, probably twice that. Given the costs of the 1472 and the costs of moving it, the question becomes "what is a non-compliant steam locomotive actually worth?

An earlier post discussed in detail the realities of the potential scrap value and the possibility that no scrapper will be interested. Does that mean the locomotive has a value of ZERO? I suspect that the real value might be somewhere in the mid 5 figures.

In any event, the asking price, now reduced to $350,000 is a pipe dream, seven times what anyone might be willing to pay for it given the costs of moving it.

IMHO

Keep in mind that if you were going to move it by rail from where it sits, either on it's own wheels or on flat cars, the spur adjacent to the CSX main ends about 700' north of the P&OC bridge. You'd have to lay temporary track and jog around the signal. It's doubtful you can tie into the north end of the track the 643 is sitting on - concrete/asphalt cutting, brush cutting, grading etc. not to mention curvature. If you wanted to pull it out on it's own wheels, you'd likely have to build past the bridge and put in a switch where one used to be. It's also unlikely CSX would allow the S1 to pull anything anywhere. It would have to go dead in tow, also.

If you could heavy haul it, which seems plausible, either in one piece or with the boiler separated, north on Munson and jog east to Nichol then you can get to a place where it can be loaded on flat cars.

I don't think there's much of a chance that it can be trucked out in one piece given the narrow streets, weight limits and clearance issues in the adjacent industrial area and McKee's Rocks itself but stranger things have happened.

All that said, if the July 1 deadline is accurate (note there's no confirmation), the logistics in pulling it off within that time frame are very slim.

That's my two cents for what it's worth (nothing, actually). The popcorn is popped and I'm heading quietly back to the cheap seats to cross my fingers and watch.