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 Post subject: 4014-844 overnight layover
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:27 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:16 pm
Posts: 9
Does anyone know if the steam team cuts the burners for overnight layover? Would there be enough residual heat and pressure in those huge boilers after say 12 hours for the blower and oil atomizer to reignite fire on the hot brick next day or would burning waste be needed in the oil pan to get fire. Thinking cool down is the first concern weighed against fuel consumption.


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 Post subject: Re: 4014-844 overnight layover
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:36 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
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Location: Faulkland, Delaware
They do indeed cut the burners. I saw them do so on one of the stops. With any locomotive it is good practice to cap the stack and close off all ways for cold air to cool down the boiler. I've been involved with a number of locomotives and have always found the boiler with steam the next morning.

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 Post subject: Re: 4014-844 overnight layover
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 3:00 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Many operators prohibit relighting on hot brick because there is a small risk of things going wrong.

In this case, no, the brick would not be hot enough for fire lighting the next day.

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 Post subject: Re: 4014-844 overnight layover
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:56 am 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:22 am
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The "Helper" diesel could be a source of compressed air for the burner if needed.

-Hudson


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 Post subject: Re: 4014-844 overnight layover
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:21 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1171
Location: Back in NE Ohio
I remember this from the late 1970's at Cedar Point with the coal-burners: Someone who was an engineer there before me had seen the stacks capped on oil burners and suggested they do the same thing on the CP&LE. So Mike Hetrick, Superintendent of the railroad at the time, made several caps out of steel plate with handles and prongs to hold them on, and they were used for at least the first season I was there (1978) for overnights when they were going to use the same engine(s) the next day. My memory is that it was discontinued because there were increased problems with leaking flues and tube sheets. Whether there is a direct cause and effect between capping stacks and that happening I have no idea, but they quit doing it at least by 1980. It could also have had to do with the railroad's overall maintenance practices. I do know that from what I have personally seen, capping stacks on steam locomotives seems to be mostly an oil-burner practice. In fact, if you look at overhead video from the recent Big Boy/844 trip to Ogden, you can see the stack caps laying off to the side of the stacks against the shield around the double stacks when the locomotive is operating.


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 Post subject: Re: 4014-844 overnight layover
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 7:44 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:47 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Arizona
If you are laying an engine up for the night, with the intent of running it the next day, if you have an oil burner, you run the pressure up to near the point of lifting the pops, fill the boiler to the top, kill the fire, close the dampers and cap the stack. You do this as you have no fire in the firebox, and you want to keep all the draft out of the boiler, and hold as much heat in the firebox as possible.

With a coal burner, you fill the boiler, and build up a nice bank of coal in the firebox, to last the night. You need to leave the stack uncapped, because you want the fire to stay burning at a low level all night. Capping the stack will suffocate the fire and put it out.


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 Post subject: Re: 4014-844 overnight layover
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:36 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:04 pm
Posts: 109
RCB wrote:
Does anyone know if the steam team cuts the burners for overnight layover? Would there be enough residual heat and pressure in those huge boilers after say 12 hours for the blower and oil atomizer to reignite fire on the hot brick next day or would burning waste be needed in the oil pan to get fire. Thinking cool down is the first concern weighed against fuel consumption.


Can't speak for the Big Boy but visited the #844 many times in the late hours of the night for some night photography. I have seen many times one person in the fireman's seat who stayed up all night watching the locomotive and keeping the pressure up. I have also seen it when they lock the cab up and just leave with nobody there. I asked Ed about losing pressure and he said with no fire and sitting overnight they only lose about 15 PSI. Keep in mind everyone is usually gone by 9PM and then someone returns around 5AM to get things going again.


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 Post subject: Re: 4014-844 overnight layover
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:30 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:48 pm
Posts: 103
Back in the era in which Paul and I worked on the CP&LE the standard practice was to run the injectors until they broke, then dump the fire. This would have been no earlier than 10:30 PM, closer to 11:00PM. The super would come in about 6:00AM and start building the fires. Usually there would still be about 20-25psi showing on the gauge. The practice of dumping the fires stopped after that super retired and the present one (who had been the assistant) took over. Since then they bank the fire instead of raking them out.


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 Post subject: Re: 4014-844 overnight layover
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 12:02 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1171
Location: Back in NE Ohio
Jennie K wrote:
Back in the era in which Paul and I worked on the CP&LE the standard practice was to run the injectors until they broke, then dump the fire. This would have been no earlier than 10:30 PM, closer to 11:00PM. The super would come in about 6:00AM and start building the fires. Usually there would still be about 20-25psi showing on the gauge. The practice of dumping the fires stopped after that super retired and the present one (who had been the assistant) took over. Since then they bank the fire instead of raking them out.


Yeah, I hardly ever worked closing shift, mostly 8 am to 4:30 pm, so I was not often around for the shutdown, but I do remember they ran the injectors to overflow, and I thought they just let the fire burn out and cleaned them out in the morning. I remember at least once or twice driving past the engine house late coming back from being at the employee rec center (when it was in the park) and an engine would be sitting in front of the house popping off well past 11 pm.


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 Post subject: Re: 4014-844 overnight layover
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 3:36 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 580
Location: Byers, Colorado
What Tommy G and Earl K said...

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 Post subject: Re: 4014-844 overnight layover
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 8:34 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:16 pm
Posts: 9
The Laramie Station webcam confirmed the experts opinion. For the extended layover there, both locomotives were 'bottled up' tightly. No steam appliances were running and absolutely no steam leaks. There wasn't any evidence of draft at the stacks just some heat waves above the smoke box and at few places off the jacketing. Seemed to take no time at all the day of departure to fire them up. The light haze at the stacks showed deliberate effort to bring temperatures up slowly for restoring operating pressure. Its a fascinating melding of historic technology and contemporary railroading where the steam locomotives can be shut down - '0' fuel consumption- while the diesel with processor controlled auto-start maintains brake pipe for minimal departure delay. Truly historic technology preserved-live! Thank you Union Pacific for memorializing your technology heritage and the Cheyenne Steam Team for recreating it. Now on in the pursuit of precision scheduled railroading.


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 Post subject: Re: 4014-844 overnight layover
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:10 pm 

Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 8:56 pm
Posts: 103
Location: New York
I was one of the many people who followed the train from Cheyenne to Ogden and I recall going to check out the locomotive after it was tied down for the evening at Evanston, Wy (about 6+ hours since it had arrived). The stack was capped, no appliances visibly running, no sounds were heard, and I could not make out any individual in either cab.


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