It is currently Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:49 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: What does a 244 sound like factory fresh?
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 5:56 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:12 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Ely, Nevada
We have a RS 2 and a RS 3 both have the Also 244 engine in them. The person I have working on them (and is doing a great job) is a little frustrated because it doesn't know what a factory fresh 244 should sound like. He's 20 years old.

So what does a factory fresh one sound like? Does anyone know of some ALCO promotional films with sound?

And how many RS-2's are still running?

Thanks

_________________
Mark Bassett
Executive Director
Nevada Northern Railway Museum


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does a 244 sound like factory fresh?
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 6:21 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:54 am
Posts: 609
Actually we should have preserved the Oldsmobile that the Master Mechanic at the Hagerstown Roundhouse used to have, it did an almost perfect impersonation of a 12-244 idling:

chuddalunk-chuddalunk-chuddalunk-chuddalunk-chuddalunk........

Unfortunately I cannot accurately put the sound of all the carbody doors rattling into a text version, nor can I recreate in text the incredible smell of unburned fuel hanging in the air over a group of these engines idling.

Actually the only ALCO-GE film I recall that featured the 244 engine extensively was a piece called SHINING RAILS (no relation to the film of the same name by a major railroad) but it was mostly distant shots and had one memorable track to track run along side underway pacing sequence of Santa Fe 51 when it was brand new. I haven't seen it in years and unfortunately don't know if it has ever been available in video. Maybe one of the other contributors might be able to advise on that.

MX

_________________
"We Repair No Locomotive Before Its Time"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does a 244 sound like factory fresh?
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 6:48 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2458
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Repeat this phrase rapidly, many times:

"Bucket-a-bolts, bucket-a-bolts, bucket-a-bolts...." That's what they sound like at idle (350 rpm).

Is that young man having trouble getting the thing to run? To idle smoothly? It does seem most of the Alco 244 expertise is east of the Missisippi River. There are some extremely good resources back here in the northeast that may be useful, if there are specific problems/questions.

Howard P.
Messing with Alco 244s since 1985 (and still learning about the things)

_________________
"I'm a railroad man, not a prophet."


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does a 244 sound like factory fresh?
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:54 am
Posts: 609
Gosh, Howard that's an even better impersonation of the 244 than the one I offered, I will save my version to describe Bill's Oldsmobile.

Thinking back about the unburned fuel cloud that used to accompany these engines, I wonder if the area around the east shop tracks at the former Erie Lackawanna engine facility in Marion, Ohio still have that odor. Its been 31 years this month since the RS3's left there.

MX

_________________
"We Repair No Locomotive Before Its Time"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does a 244 sound like factory fresh?
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:03 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:12 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Ely, Nevada
Do ALCO's idle smoothly? Actually, he has it running great. It was just the realization that our 'new' diesel is quite old and we were curious what a facotry one sounded like.

_________________
Mark Bassett
Executive Director
Nevada Northern Railway Museum


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does a 244 sound like factory fresh?
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:23 pm 

Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:55 pm
Posts: 268
Location: San Diego area
Mark: Too bad you didn't post this last week, we had our ALCO MRS-1 (#2104, built 1953) running this last weekend. We could have given you a phone call and let you listen. Right now, it sounds great, we've got an "ALCO guy" from LA, who has been "tuning it up."

Our guy said he's about done with the prime mover work, but we still have a ground fault problem to track down.

I'll next be out at Campo on May 11 &12. If it's running, I'll give you a call. (Or, you and your guy could come down here, and we'll start it up for you.)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does a 244 sound like factory fresh?
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 9:32 pm 

Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:55 pm
Posts: 268
Location: San Diego area
Mark: Actually, in my above note I should have said, "too bad you COULDN'T have posted your note a few days earlier."

I really appreciate your taking on the job for this great forum.

Also, you asked if any RS-2's were still running. We have an RS-2 (actually used to be one of yours; #103, if I remember correctly). Several years ago, one of our guys didn't believe the low water alarm, so it doesn't run any more. But, I understand that we are negotiating with someone for a 244 block to replace the one that is in there now. (I'm not up on all the details, since I'm the steam guy, and only work on/run the diesels when I have to. But since ALCO's are honorary steam engines, I suppose it's ok for me to discuss them.)

The other people who responded above did a really good job of describing what a 244 sounds like. I couldn't improve on either one of them.

Jim


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does a 244 sound like factory fresh?
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 9:48 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:12 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Ely, Nevada
Jim,
I might have to find a video camera and post a video of our RS 2 and RS 3 running. In our last photo shoot we ran them mu-d hauling a freight.
Here's a picture link of them in operation from the shoot
http://www.nevadanorthernrailway.net/im ... /Alcos.jpg

And yes I have been on the platform and heard a father tell his son, "See, here comes a steam engine." It was 109 and I didn't have the heart to tell him otherwise.

_________________
Mark Bassett
Executive Director
Nevada Northern Railway Museum


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does a 244 sound like factory fresh?
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:31 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2458
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
MX:

I never paid much attention to Bill's Oldsmobile; I was much more interested in his daughter!

I wonder how deep the petroleum fouls the ground at the old E-L shop site in Marion.....

Glad to hear there are some working 244s in the West.

Howard P.

_________________
"I'm a railroad man, not a prophet."


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does a 244 sound like factory fresh?
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:58 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2749
Location: Northern Illinois
Mark S Bassett wrote:
Do ALCO's idle smoothly? Actually, he has it running great. It was just the realization that our 'new' diesel is quite old and we were curious what a facotry one sounded like.


In a word, no. Why, are they supposed to?

The real treat was watching the Soo Line flat switch their classification yard at North Fond du Lac, WI in the early seventies with ex RSC- 2’s and 3’s, by then re-trucked B-B with trucks taken from the Baldwins (yes, they retained the Westinghouse motors) The typical bucket-of-bolts, bucket-of-bolts cadence would occasionally be interrupted by CHUG! CHUG! CHUG! CHUG! accompanied by a huge cloud of inky black smoke as the engineer opened the throttle to kick a car, then the idling cadence would return, with just a hint of a whine as the turbo, which had just started to come up to speed, wound down again.

_________________
Dennis Storzek


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does a 244 sound like factory fresh?
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 10:40 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:51 am
Posts: 218
Location: Wilmington, DE
Mark,

Another resource may be the guys at the D L in Scranton, PA. All they run are Alco products.

_________________
Alan S. Levy

"There's only one 'bo that's got the stuff to try me, and you ain't even on the list." - Shack / Emperor of the North. ****GO PHILS****


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does a 244 sound like factory fresh?
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 11:11 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:15 pm
Posts: 160
Location: Lawrenceville, NJ
Mark S Bassett wrote:
Do ALCO's idle smoothly?


I had to laugh when I read that... if it's idling smoothly then there's definitely something wrong with it!

I like Howard's description of the sound the best, seems appropriate!

"chuddalunk chuddalunk" fits too, but the closest I think someone has come in print to describing the 244 idle sound was a few years back in a story in TRAINS about (IIRC) L&N RS-3's... "diddy-rump diddy-rump" LOL!!

'been a few years since I've been around a live something with a 244, or a 539 for that matter, in it... got to track down a live 1st gen Alc this year.

Regards,
Jim Robinson


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does a 244 sound like factory fresh?
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 8:50 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:10 pm
Posts: 670
Location: Iron City
The hunting at idle speed (350 rpm) is due to a combination of factors such as worn pins and bushings in the fuel racks, injection pumps out of adjustment...along with the quirks of the particular governor and associated engine control panel.

I have heard it said (straight from the horses' mouth) that when new, the units did not hunt at idle.

DPK

_________________
"Two wrongs don't make a right, but they make a good excuse."-Thomas Szasz


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does a 244 sound like factory fresh?
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 11:41 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:25 am
Posts: 11
Location: Virginia City, NV
The hunting at idle speed does have alot to do with the wear on the rack and with how your pumps are set. All it takes is for one pump to fire hard at idle to throw off the idle speed, and cause hunting. I had it running perfectly smooth, but got picky because 2 pumps were still firing hard, and in the process of trying to adjust them I had to reset the whole rack, which caused the hunting again. My next step is to do a "dry run", in which you essentially fool the engine into thinking that its running, and the governor goes to "half rack", which I beleive is 15mm indicated at the pump (I will have to check the book), you adjust all of the fuel pumps to 15mm, and the governor will not try to correct itself during that time. As for the bucket-a-bolts sound, our 109 did that. The problem was in the governor, it was hunting a little, once you get them dialed in they purr, and stay at a constant rpm. However, after all of these adjustments it is probably wise to go back and re-adjust your rpm. All of that said, I still haven't heard what a 244 sounds like when its "tight" and factory adjusted.




NH0401 wrote:
The hunting at idle speed (350 rpm) is due to a combination of factors such as worn pins and bushings in the fuel racks, injection pumps out of adjustment...along with the quirks of the particular governor and associated engine control panel.

I have heard it said (straight from the horses' mouth) that when new, the units did not hunt at idle.

DPK


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What does a 244 sound like factory fresh?
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 11:56 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2458
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
JMB:

Are you using the GE "tachometer-in-a-box" that plugs into the engine speed panel, to set the RPMs?

Do you have the plain Amplidyne or the later Simplifed Amplidyne control system?

By the way, the "diddy-rump, diddy-rump" quick-step mentioned by Jim Robinson is the sound at second notch..... :-))

Howard P.

_________________
"I'm a railroad man, not a prophet."


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Chris Webster, elecuyer, Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot] and 44 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: