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 Post subject: Re: Flying Yankee Restoration Group
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:54 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:41 pm
Posts: 514
Location: Minneapolis, MN
The issue is NOT a matter of will. It is a matter of M-O-N-E-Y. Pure and simple. That and murky ownership that precludes raising money for restoring something that is not your, and that's an organizational "your" property. Want to put a couple of hundred thousand of your own money into something that you lease from the state, who really has little interest in it? Not I, brother. And therein lies the rub. We can moan and groan all we want, and make all kinds of great suggestions, but eventually, someone will have to pony up the dollars to make ANYTHING happen.

Hasn't happened yet. Isn't likely, either.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying Yankee Restoration Group
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:18 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:21 pm
Posts: 103
Hamster is correct. That being the case, the steps would be 1) to establish a 501(c)3 which had donor confidence, 2) create a sound business plan, and 3) obtain ownership of the 6000. My "short distance up-and-back" suggestions are part of step 2.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying Yankee Restoration Group
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 476
Location: Illinois
Who does own the Flying Yankee?
Does the state of New Hampshire own it? Did the Hobo Railroad own it at one time?


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 Post subject: Re: Flying Yankee Restoration Group
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am
Posts: 1488
The State of New Hampshire owns the Flying Yankee.

PC

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 Post subject: Re: Flying Yankee Restoration Group
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:19 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 839
Mr. Cook, a couple of questions if you don't mind: 1. I am sure you have heard a Winton diesel operating, is the sound of it comparable to a 567 or 645? 2. Do you think the smallest (six cylinder, or eight for the 645?) 567 or 645 would fit in the space seen in the above photo? Thanks, PMC


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 Post subject: Re: Flying Yankee Restoration Group
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:18 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:04 pm
Posts: 119
The Pioneer Zephyr in Chicago has a complete engine. You could remove and re-cast any missing parts if the prints are missing. looks like a small engine similar to what you would find on a boat. Doubt if it would cost that much considering the simplicity of those early diesel engines.

They are building a Pennsylvania T-1 from scratch. I am sure this project can be accomplished if someone gets the word out. I remember reading about this train for the first time about two months ago. Looks like a neat train. I would throw in a few dollars.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying Yankee Restoration Group
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:21 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:04 pm
Posts: 119
PMC wrote:
Mr. Cook, a couple of questions if you don't mind: 1. I am sure you have heard a Winton diesel operating, is the sound of it comparable to a 567 or 645? 2. Do you think the smallest (six cylinder, or eight for the 645?) 567 or 645 would fit in the space seen in the above photo? Thanks, PMC


Hear it and find out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbMOfN3KNro


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 Post subject: Re: Flying Yankee Restoration Group
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:08 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:09 pm
Posts: 402
Tom F wrote:
PMC wrote:
Mr. Cook, a couple of questions if you don't mind: 1. I am sure you have heard a Winton diesel operating, is the sound of it comparable to a 567 or 645? 2. Do you think the smallest (six cylinder, or eight for the 645?) 567 or 645 would fit in the space seen in the above photo? Thanks, PMC


Hear it and find out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbMOfN3KNro


Cant really compare that one. Thats a Winton 158, a slow speed 375RPM big bore (14"x16") engine. The 8-201A is a medium speed, 750rpm 8"x10" engine.

The closest your going to get to hearing a Winton comparable to a 12/16-201A is going to be a Cleveland 248/278 engine (which at this point, are getting to be just as rare..). In my experience, they sound pretty damn similar to a 567, just a bit deeper of a tone.

There is a video (I dont have the link handy, I will search for it tomorrow) from the 1930s of one of the CB&Q (I think) Zephrys, and there is a short clip inside of them starting one, although I cant say how authentic the recording actually is.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying Yankee Restoration Group
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:07 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:36 am
Posts: 333
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
If it's the one shown in the 1935 movie "The Silver Streak" (not to be confused with the more recent Gene Wilder movie "Silver Streak"), you can find it on Youtube.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying Yankee Restoration Group
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:24 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am
Posts: 1488
PMC wrote:
Mr. Cook, a couple of questions if you don't mind: 1. I am sure you have heard a Winton diesel operating, is the sound of it comparable to a 567 or 645? 2. Do you think the smallest (six cylinder, or eight for the 645?) 567 or 645 would fit in the space seen in the above photo? Thanks, PMC


The Winton 201A engines have a sharper and perhaps more "metallic" exhaust sound than the EMD 567. You hear the individual cylinders more distinctly.

Here is a link to a video of a 1940 B&O film that has some pretty good audio of the 12-201A engines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8-Ea041Tjg

As far as the feasibility of repowering of the train is concerned, I did a survey of the train at Edaville in the early 1980s when the 50th Anniversary was approaching, and there was a proposal developed for a alternative propulsion and HEP package using GM Detroit Diesel engines. The propulsion package fit the "footprint" of the Winton and would have required no changes to the body of the train. The FYRG and the State of New Hampshire both still had copies of that as of a few years ago. It was never done, and the suggested engine package is now long outdated.

PC

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 Post subject: Re: Flying Yankee Restoration Group
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:36 am 
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I will add that one of the problems in developing an alternate propulsion and HEP package for this train is that the weight loadings of each of the trucks are quite different, and the original brake system is proportioned by using several different cylinder sizes and leverage. Consequently any new engine package would have to very closely approximate the weight distribution of the original system if it was desired to make use of the original brake actuating hardware.

PC

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 Post subject: Re: Flying Yankee Restoration Group
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:53 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 421
PC, What was the proposed engine package of the time?

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: Flying Yankee Restoration Group
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:25 pm 
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The package that was discussed included a 12V-71 running at 460HP (336 kW) driving an EMD D79 generator for propulsion, and a separate skid mounted 4-71 for HEP. It would have used the existing air intake, exhaust and radiator outlet openings in the carbody with no external visual changes to the equipment. The silencer and stacks were drawn up to visually duplicate the appearance of the Winton engine equipment. It also would have left the original frame and engine base intact so that the train could be reverse equipped back to original internal configuration (except for things obviously having to be altered, like electrical cabinet and control wiring) at some future time if there was no longer interest in operating it.

PC

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 Post subject: Re: Flying Yankee Restoration Group
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:46 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 421
PC, Thanks for the info. Interesting choices of power plants. Most likely could find both of those engines on the used engine market. Might have to have them reconditioned before installing though. The D79 main generator might also still be sourced on the second hand parts market.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: Flying Yankee Restoration Group
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:34 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 476
Location: Illinois
Tom F wrote:
The Pioneer Zephyr in Chicago has a complete engine.


The word on the street was the engine in the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry's Pioneer Zephyr is a replica. Is that true, or urban legend?


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