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 Post subject: Re: FEC #148 Rebuilding
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:42 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:51 pm
Posts: 90
Location: Ipswich, Mass., Phoenix, AZ
Thanks Ross. "Just the facts ma'm".


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 Post subject: Re: FEC #148 Rebuilding
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1855
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
When restoring a steam locomotive to active service there is but ONE standard that must be followed religiously and that standard is to cut no corners and treat every locomotive you're working on as if you will be her hogger at track speed with your family in the first coach behind the tender.

I've known Scott Lindsay for over 40 years and he has done many extensive steam locomotive jobs for me over the years and every one has been executed to the highest standards. Yes, he has left some projects short of completion when funds were inadequate to finish the job in the proper manner or issues were uncovered in the disassembly phase that made a restoration unfeasible( condemned boiler etc.).

Remarks like those made above by Hamster show a critical lack of comprehensive knowledge of the dangers that exist in a live steam locomotive, dangers that can be life threatening on a machine not properly restored or maintained.

90% can get you killed.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: FEC #148 Rebuilding
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:13 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
Posts: 2413
Location: Faulkland, Delaware
Any allegations or inferences of poor quality of workmanship have been and will be deleted. If you have an axe to grind feel free to do so elsewhere.

Your friendly moderator,

Tom Gears


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 Post subject: Re: FEC #148 Rebuilding
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:45 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:51 pm
Posts: 90
Location: Ipswich, Mass., Phoenix, AZ
I hope they continue to work on it, and continue to post pictures!
Ned


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 Post subject: Re: FEC #148 Rebuilding
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:51 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2327
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I think I know what your answers are, but I want to ask anyway.

This engine is going to be captive to US Sugar's railroad, and maybe run a few times a year. Is the complete restoration to better than new necessary? Could the project have been done at lower cost, for a lower service commitment?

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Steven Harrod
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Institut for Systemer, Produktion, og Ledelse


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 Post subject: Re: FEC #148 Rebuilding
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:13 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1855
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
The answer to Mr. Harrod's question is a simple..................

NO !!!!!

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: FEC #148 Rebuilding
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:38 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2327
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Because under that standard, we would not be operating in Denmark at all.

And further, if you told us flat out from the beginning that we were only going to run a few weekends this year, there are a lot of items on the engine we just would not bother repairing.

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Steven Harrod
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Institut for Systemer, Produktion, og Ledelse


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 Post subject: Re: FEC #148 Rebuilding
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:05 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
Posts: 390
Location: Northern WV
If they plan on staying on their own trackage, they could have opted not to convert the tender and unpowered engine axles to roller bearings. That might have saved some money, but probably not that much considering all the other work that needed to be done.

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Roger Cole


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 Post subject: Re: FEC #148 Rebuilding
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:23 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:14 pm
Posts: 108
Steam locomotives are imperfect machines. They will run worn out as they will brand new. Maybe not as well.....but they will run And can still be reliable. Look at most tourist railroads, do you really think their engines are factory fresh new in every regard? They will only every stay prefect for so long anyway. Trying to make them as new prefect in every regard will take you down a black hole money pit that you will never recover. Make the boiler as good as is possible, that's the part that matters the most and is the most safety sensitive part. Axles wheels next. Things like roller bearings are extras. New stack casting is an extra. New tender tank is an extra. New spoked pilot wheels are an extra. Lots of extra money was spent that likely did not need to be


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 Post subject: Re: FEC #148 Rebuilding
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:57 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:51 pm
Posts: 90
Location: Ipswich, Mass., Phoenix, AZ
Pure speculation Tails.


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 Post subject: Re: FEC #148 Rebuilding
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:37 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:01 pm
Posts: 110
Location: Chattanooga
Based on what I read, this project started off with no budget set and any expense was okay as long as the 148 was restored as needed. I heard that management changes occurred at US Sugar and sometime later, the "no expense spared" mentality changed.

You just can't plan for that in advance as a steam loco restoration contractor. So to try and armchair quarterback the process after the fact probably isn't fair.


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 Post subject: Re: FEC #148 Rebuilding
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:08 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:58 pm
Posts: 10
Paste and patch versus do it right the first time doesn't seem like a good business model. I would suspect that one would spend a lot of time chasing defects and ultimately dealing with failures if something as complex as a locomotive was marginally slapped together.

If...if, this locomotive is going to travel any considerable distance, especially with passengers, just think about the possible problems that could result, stranded people for one.

Puttering around on 500 feet of track at a company picnic, I suppose you could go cheap on some things.

Whatever the intended use, I'd be leary of a pressure vessel with any form of shortcut used in the rebuilding. I'm by no means saying that this is the case with the work done to the 148's boiler, I'm merely responding to some of the posts that read like they're suggesting that halfway work is acceptable in certain instances. I would hope that any steam operator, and frankly diesel operator, is not relying on the "good enough" philosophy.


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 Post subject: Re: FEC #148 Rebuilding
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:22 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5671
I'm not getting involved in the comments on the restoration of FEC #148 but I do have a couple of questions. First, how much track does U.S. Sugar have in their Florida operations? And is it all just "mill trackage" or is there also some "main line" type running, even if only out onto their own sugar growing property?

Thanks.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: FEC #148 Rebuilding
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:02 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
Posts: 390
Location: Northern WV
The sugar company has a lot of "main-line" trackage as well as the usual "mill trackage", TRAINS magazine had an article on the sugar company and its operation a few years ago and had this map which I've included below


Attachments:
Florida_sugar_railroads.jpg
Florida_sugar_railroads.jpg [ 165.4 KiB | Viewed 1221 times ]

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Roger Cole
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 Post subject: Re: FEC #148 Rebuilding
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:28 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 477
Location: Illinois
I had the chance to see this engine while it was in Traverse City, MI in the midst of an aborted attempt to restore it. I can't think of an engine in worse condition where an operational rebuild was attempted. For example, I am sure you could have punched a hole right through the rusted-out tender - so a new tender tank is absolutely needed. And the engine appeared to have many parts missing on the backhead and running gear. Also, I was told the engine was dragged en route to Traverse City, damaging the wheels and who knows what else more. So I am not surprised the 148 needs basically everything rebuilt new or from scratch - running gear, wheels, drivers, backhead, cab, etc. I am still surprised anyone attempted this restoration.

US Sugar could have probably saved some money by locating a better candidate for restoration - such as the FEC 153. But too late for that now.


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