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 Post subject: Re: SP Cab Forward tender
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:05 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 188
Old Smokey - Can you post a higher resolution picture of the ACI tag? Maybe a cropped section from your middle picture above? It isn't readable at the current resolution, but does look like an SP tag.

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 Post subject: Re: SP Cab Forward tender
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:58 pm
Posts: 109
Does this help..?


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Mystery BCR Tender 2860 B (1).jpg
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 Post subject: Re: SP Cab Forward tender
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:01 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 188
At that resolution I'm reading it as 6721004764, or a non-revenue SP4764, which sort of follows what John T said. Add Brian Norden's explanation of the A for non revenue tenders. Somehow we have a small problem from John T's statement that there was "#4764A, along with water car #4764," so there's still that (what would the 4764A have been tagged as, and still, what AC did the 4764 come from?). Does confirm that a 4764 went to BCRy/2860.

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 Post subject: Re: SP Cab Forward tender
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:02 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:04 pm
Posts: 123
Old Smokey wrote:
BCR4619
That's exactly how it was.
CN had made it more than plain, they had no interest at all in the steam program.
The word "hostile" would not be incorrect.
So the rush was on to save the collection before the scrappers arrived.



That's not really true. The steam program ended in around 2001. The CN take over was in Dec, 2003. I don't believe the Royal Hudson excursions were ever that profitable as it was running seven days a week. I remember they had a large message board in the depot that that listed how many passengers were on each train for each day of the week. Towards the end, even on a really good day they were only averaging around 230 per trip. Weekdays it was maybe 80.

When the Royal Hudson went down for repairs the #3716 took it's place. It's a decent locomotive but you could tell it was worn out and much like the Royal Hudson wouldn't last much longer. Many of us who had rode the Royal Hudson so many times knew the writing was on the wall and the end was near. I remember on one trip asking the engineer for a cab ride back to Vancouver. He let me ride on the #3716 on the way back, and I doubt if any of us spoke more than a few words all the way to Vancouver. Shortly after the #3716 went down and was replaced by some BC rail diesels.

The truth is BC rail never cared that much for steam either. The BC Government kept the steam program running as a way of increasing tourism despite any objections from the railroad. It was made specifically for that purpose. At the time the town of Squamish was largely dependent on the steam train. As Vancouver and Squamish grew over the years there was much more to see and do and the steam train became less important. Since the BC Government was funding the train overhauling the two steam locomotives, combined with the low ridership, made no sense.

The tender story is interesting. I do remember reading that the SP 4449 tender was from a Cab forward.


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 Post subject: Re: SP Cab Forward tender
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:20 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm
Posts: 881
After a little research I found that SP water cars 4764 and 4764A were permanently coupled and considered as one car.


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 Post subject: Re: SP Cab Forward tender
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:58 pm
Posts: 109
Tom F
Thanks for your feedback.
You raise some interesting points. I'll try to address them.
The entire steam program was indeed a BC Government initiative.
Funded by the Ministry of Tourism, with the Premier's blessing, to promote tourism in Beautiful BC.

True....the railway was not enthusiastic about it....at all.
But as the Provincial Government owned the BCR, and provided funding for the railway, and the steam program... the railway didn't have much choice.

Regarding profitability.
People who would know, told me the Hudson paid it's operating costs. But that capital expenditures, such as overhauls, were covered by the Government.

With all due respect, I would dispute your claim of 2816 being worn-out.
To my personal knowledge it had had major work done, including a really authentic replacement cab, boiler and running gear work.
Plus a great deal of ongoing daily maint.
It certainly needed some work at the end... but what working steam loco doesn't.

Some of my photo's over the years.
Major rebuild at N.Van. Photo taken May 15, 1991.
It looked pretty good at N.Van in Aug of 1998,
And very nice indeed at the KVR up in the Okanagan June 2016.


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3716  15 May 1991.jpg
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3716 13 Aug 98. N.Van.jpg
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DSC02657.jpg
DSC02657.jpg [ 162.03 KiB | Viewed 362 times ]
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