It is currently Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:31 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 83 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Feds sue Durango and Silverton over 416 fire
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:46 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 930
Location: Tucson, Arizona
tweetsie12 wrote:
Hey, now here's something no one else has brought up: Why not just use torrified biomass as a fuel? I believe the Coalition For Sustainable Rail Project is working on that kind of fuel, and it burns just the same as coal. Not to mention that it has none of the side effects. It could save the D&S millions of dollars from converting the locomotives to oil. (And yes, I already told Al Harper about this.) But to get more serious for a second, something about this entire case doesn't line up. I believe it might of been an Arson, due to the lack of sufficient evidence against the railroad, and for the fact that the D&S has already taken measures to prevent fires.



That's an interesting proposition. Of course, the industry would have to see some solid cost estimates to determine where it might be a suitable substitute. I don't see anything that addresses the cost of setting up a biomass fuel plant or the estimated cost per ton.

As for the 416 fire, all I can say is that the United States Attorney's Office would not have filed suit if they didn't think that they have a good chance at winning. I can see the property owners maybe taking a chance but not the USAO. What makes you think it was an arson?

_________________
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."- Conductor Nimrod Bell, 1896


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Feds sue Durango and Silverton over 416 fire
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:53 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 450
Legal wise... didn’t the forest service themselves allow the steam train to run that day? So wouldn’t they have to prove the D&S was being negligent?

Because the forest service has asked D&S not to run in dry conditions in the past correct?

I mean the damage has been done either way to a point, I’m just wondering how that affects the possible outcome of the case.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Feds sue Durango and Silverton over 416 fire
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:14 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 930
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
Legal wise... didn’t the forest service themselves allow the steam train to run that day? So wouldn’t they have to prove the D&S was being negligent?

Because the forest service has asked D&S not to run in dry conditions in the past correct?

I mean the damage has been done either way to a point, I’m just wondering how that affects the possible outcome of the case.


Even if the Forest Service did permit the railroad to operate that day, the railroad also has a legal responsibility to determine whether the conditions are safe as well. All the plaintiffs are required to prove is that the locomotive caused the fire. If the locomotive caused the fire, the railroad is liable for any costs incurred by the government to extinguish the fire. Final responsibility always rests with the operator.

The thing is, that in a civil case, the burden of proof is preponderance of evidence-not absolute proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The government can argue that the fact that the locomotive set the fire is proof that the D&S was negligent. Given that the case will be tried in Colorado and any jury (if drawn) will be from that area, that might not be a hard argument for the government to make.

_________________
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."- Conductor Nimrod Bell, 1896


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Feds sue Durango and Silverton over 416 fire
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:31 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1417
I believe it could have been arson. There seems to be a number of people writing letters to the editor of the Durango Herald that are bitterly opposed to D&S, and would like to see their entire operation cease to exist. That is a decent motive for setting a fire to bring about a lawsuit that could result in D&S going out of business.

I would think that as long as the Forest Service cannot rule out arson, the circumstantial evidence citing that D&S trains have started fires in the past and the fact that this fire started near their tracks would not be enough to prove that they started this fire.

I have yet to hear of any solid evidence from the Forest Service that shows that a D&S locomotive started the fire. They have mentioned finding ashes or burnt material long the D&S track near where the fire started. However, we already know the fire started somewhere near the tracks, perhaps within the range of a thrown spark. But this is also the exact type of location that an arsonist would use if they were igniting a fire that they wanted to see blamed on the D&S.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Feds sue Durango and Silverton over 416 fire
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:07 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1417
Another fire broke out right after the passage of a D&S train, which seems to have raised a few eyebrows and interesting viewpoints. Of particular interest is the transient van which was observed emptying the ash tray. I have not unpacked this entire article yet, but it looks interesting on many levels. One is the apparent increasing fire danger. Another is the lack of a pop car trailing the train. Then there is the cancelation of the helicopter contract.


https://durangoherald.com/articles/2904 ... -passed-by


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Feds sue Durango and Silverton over 416 fire
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 930
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Basically it's a story about nothing. Fire officials said that because it was a small fire and no structures were burned, they will not be wasting their time investigating the source.

_________________
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."- Conductor Nimrod Bell, 1896


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Feds sue Durango and Silverton over 416 fire
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:58 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1674
Location: Strasburg, PA
I noticed that the story neglected the fact that the train was loafing downgrade into town at the time, and that steam locomotives don't throw cinders when they aren't working hard.

_________________
"It was not easy to convince Allnutt. All his shop training had given him a profound prejudice against inexact work, experimental work, hit-or-miss work."
C. S. Forester

Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Feds sue Durango and Silverton over 416 fire
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:33 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Posts: 176
Jerry Day (the photographer) was at the spot when the train passed by. They discussed this on the NGDF.

http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php ... msg-376138


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 83 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 52 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: