https://www.columbian.com/news/2019/jul ... locomotive

This repatriation has apparently been in the works for some time behind the scenes.



More at the link.

Photo below by yours truly, Williams, Az. April 6th, 2019, with 539 on the right on display and GCRY ex-CB&Q 4960 at left.

Fire down 539!

Would've been nice to have seen her run, though likely unrecognizable in service at the Grand Canyon. Basically, a lateral move from one display to another, but at least she'll look more at home in WA.

/Mitch

I saw this locomotive many times at Battle Ground, Washington. It was in pretty bad condition back then. I heard the city sold it to some guy for a dollar. It's unfortunate that there is no plans to restore her back to operation. Glad to hear it is going back home to Washington. A SP&S locomotive in Arizona sure seemed weird.

With all the large steam locomotives on track to be restored or are already I questioned my thought about another restoration on another large locomotive. But never say never it only takes a lot of money. Who cares if it has a place to run or a train to pull. Not trying to be sarcastic to anybody but I have to remind myself of this every time a thought like this comes to my mind.

I do have a question though. No doubt the Grand Canyon must of thought this locomotive had potential. So was any serious exploration done to see what her condition was? I know about having to tear down and 1472 compliance. Just wondering if anybody had done a unofficial survey of her condition. And who it was that made the " initial survey" is important. I also know you won't truly know until you get farther into it. Condition of the paint and jacketing while sitting in a park does not tell me much as far as condition goes, that is cosmetic usually. Though a rusted through jacket with insulation under can spell trouble do to corrosion. Thanks if anybody knows?

Nice looking loco and couldn't agree more "too bad it did not get to run at GCRR".
Regards, John.

She was the subject of a couple of different restoration attempts before she ended up at the Grand Canyon, first with a group in Battleground, WA who planned to restore her as SP&S 539, and then a private owner who had planned to restore her as NP 1762 for an operation in Montana that never materialized. She ended up at the Grand Canyon in exchange for their spare pair of LS&I 2-8-0s (now at the Rio Grande Scenic). I believe the original plan was to restore 539 to operation at the Grand Canyon, but they scaled back their steam program soon after she arrived. I recall she was listed for sale for a while, before they cosmetically restored her and put her on display.

Definitely good to see her going back to NP/SP&S territory. She is the last ex-NP Mikado and the largest surviving locomotive from the railroad that gave us the Northern and the Yellowstone types. As NP 1762 she was a W-3 class heavy Mikado. Sister engine 1713 was the last steam locomotive to pull a train in revenue service on the NP.

I remember when the global warming hysteria was in full swing the Grand Canyon was seriously considering retiring the steam locomotives out of pollution concerns. It was around this time they took control of the SP&S 539 which they wanted to restore to operating condition because they claimed they needed a more powerful locomotive. Yet a more powerful locomotive meant more black smoke going up into the sky. If I remember correctly the steam program was on hiatus for quite some time. Not only was the SP&S project totally dead, the other steam locomotives were in serious jeopardy. More information with this article https://www.williamsnews.com/news/2008/ ... ine-trips/

Steam engines bring in more revenue and it didn't take long for the Grand Canyon to notice a dip in the ticket sales. So they did a pretty remarkable compromise. They converted the steam locomotives to burn vegetable oil.

It's hard to say what the future holds for the Grand Canyon steam program. Currently they are only running steam about one day a month. It's evident they are slowly killing off the steam program until they are only running one or two times a year. I can only imagine with what little steam activity they have, there is probably not much hope when it comes time for a major overhaul. The steam engines will likely end up sold or on display. Ride them while you can.

Without starting a political fight of any kind, I hardly believe global warming is a hoax or issue of hysteria. I would offer, the EPA makes an allowance for historic coal burning equipment, such as steam locomotives. That's my understanding, but perhaps somebody can correct or amplify that thought. Opinion here, but I would take a season of steam locomotive operation along a route like the GCRy over a Friday night at any toll booth along Interstate 95.

How long does it take to accumulate and process enough fry-olater oil to run a steam locomotive anyway?

Let's examine the timeline a bit more closely.

2006: Biegerts put the operation up for sale. Xanterra reaches an agreement to purchase that September, finally closing the deal early 2007.

2007: 18 and 19 are traded for 539, in a deal that supposedly started before the sale.

2008: controlling interest in Xanterra was bought by Philip Anschutz; all steam operations shut down September.

2009: one-Saturday-a-month (plus special events) steam operation resumes in September.

2019: A couple groups are hyping "Last Charter Before 29 Is Put Into Storage!" for fall trips, implying that 29 will be retired (this inferred retirement has not been confirmed by the RR, by the way).

It's fairly widely understood by people "in the know" that Xanterra (whose acquisition of the RR changed it from a "family business" to a small part of a big corporation based in another state) used the "environmental issues" strictly as a cover for reducing the quite considerable additional expense of steam (at a time when air-quality issues from power plants hundreds of miles away were causing occasional visibility issues at the Canyon). In other words, it's all about the money, and the trains are all about that big hole in the ground at the north end. With an increased focus on upper-class service (now basically half of any train, in terms of cars), even with Williams' focus on "Wild West" tourism and the line's hiring of cowboy/bandit entertainers, passenger traffic has continued to increase incrementally every year even with only token use of steam--a scenario that would NOT happen were steam to disappear at, say, Durango, Strasburg, Cumbres, Wiscasset, Black Hills Central, or the like. (Consider for a moment: I had to REALLY work at that list right there, because of now-"dieselized" places like Sierra, Conway, Mount Washington, Chattanooga, etc.)

The numbers don't lie. Each round trip of 29 or 4960 consumes 1,200 gallons of fuel (compared to the 250-300 gallons of diesel used by a single F40FH or FPA-4) and 12,000 gallons of water, even with a diesel helper put there primarily for dynamic braking on the 3% grades. And the price of waste vegetable oil has skyrocketed with the demand for "green" use (some cynics call its use and promotion "virtue signalling"). And there's even a reliability problem--I've personally seen trains with steam have to stop and regain pressure due to a weak fire (jokingly excused as "a French fry jammed the burner").

The biggest "ecological" factor on the GCRY is not smoke or fossil fuels, but WATER--an issue only truly understood by denizens of the desert. Unlike other steam railroads which put on a show of steam loco servicing (sometimes under a big water tank), the GCRY basically hides its servicing off on the leg of the South Rim wye where "nobody" goes, because they have to pump reclaimed rainwater into the tender from a tankcar brought up to the South Rim by a work train! In the early days, the 2-8-0s would trail a water tank car behind the tender as a canteen, remember?

It's also relevant that 1) ALL the water at the South Rim is pumped up from the Colorado River through an ageing, inadequate, and failing pipeline in major need of refurbishment/replacement; 2) the Santa Fe used to run trainloads of water from Puro, a location next to the legendary (to Arizona's settlement) Del Rio Springs, between Ash Fork and Prescott, not only to the South Rim but to other communities along the lines when wells would run dry--as far BACK as the line's 1901 opening and as late as the late 1970s; 3) the water systems in several communities in Arizona are holdovers from wells, tanks, reservoirs, and systems installed by the Santa Fe itself a century ago to service its steam locos (and until recently residents of a few villages along the Transcon still paid water bills to BNSF--I've personally seen such bills); and 4) I've been told that some wells in the Williams area reach down as far as 3,500 feet to assure supply.

The GCRY staff is notably proud of their excellently-maintained steam. They don't hesitate to work the steamers hard on a 3% grade. (Whereas I've yet to see an impressive stack show out of UP 4014 so far.) But it could only take one executive order from Denver for it all to end.

Well first to admit I am not in "the Know" but have always been under the impression that the crews at GCRR knew their stuff and kept up their steam locomotives very well. The whole operation actually. That is why I asked about the #539s perceived condition. With that talent at their disposal I figured they at one time or another gave it a good look over for the more obvious sign and symptoms of serious trouble. And yes I know you will find more as you get into it. Was only curious if anybody gave it a "mechanical" look rather than a cosmetic look over.. Thanks for the time line history ADMIV and that helps people understand who might not of even been an adult during half of the history of GCRR.

Don't know too many who argue "global warming" as not happening. The argument is on what is causing it. People are unable it seems to think independently. So they repeat what they hear as truth. Worked for Hitler and it works today. So media and political BS needs to be acknowledged for what it is. It is natural for people to believe and form opinions when they hear or read something. The only thing you know is what you just heard or read. So you repeat it. It is why propaganda works, same as "defamation of character". OT for sure but it was mentioned and like it or not it is related to our beloved steam engines because of the fossil fuel connection and people being idiots.
Regards, John. PS "fire in the hole"

Please don’t post false information... Chattanooga has not dieselized. Quite the opposite.
local train is steam 7 days a week in the summer, weekends virtually year round (except for winter maintenance). They also run the larger locomotive #4501 down to Summerville Georgia every weekend in the fall, and once or twice a month the rest of the year.

Mount Washington still runs steam daily, just not on all the trips.

And North Conway just brought the CN engine back, and they are evaluating a second.

The big issue is water and water rights. Here in Southern Arizona, one of the big issues is the acquisition of land by companies that are either controlled or owned by foreign governments. Down near Willcox, several large farms (and their water rights) are owned by companies controlled by the Saudis. The farms grow fodder that is shipped to Saudi Arabia to feed their dairy cows.

Closer to home, we have the Rosemont Copper Mine which is supposed to begin construction south of Tucson. This controversial project was given the necessary permits to proceed and is a property of HudBay (a Canadian corporation). Who is the majority investor in Hudbay? The Chinese government. The damage that the mine will do to the local geography and the water supply is significant.

Unfortunately, Arizona is facing a water shortage situation that no amount of conservation will alleviate. We simply have too many people and industries and not enough water. Due to the growing population (mainly in the Phoenix metro area), I have reason to believe that within my lifetime, we will see construction of water pipelines from the Pacific Coast to Arizona. UP has already begun planning water trains to operate from treatment facilities on the West Coast to Phoenix and Tucson.

I deliberately put "dieselized" in quotes to address exactly this issue. They're not completely diesel, but at least some of their operations have used diesels to augment/replace steam on occasion. And there are other lines/operations in the same situation as well--diesels on dinner trains on the Western Maryland Scenic RR, Wilmington & Western alternating an SW1 and a steamer, etc.

I have been told, back-channel from at least two different sources, that regardless of whatever others may have said about the condition of 539, there was nothing whatsoever preventing a cost-effective restoration; in fact, one principal said the engine was in "very good condition" and shop personnel were eager to get it into service. The only reason the restoration never proceeded was a change in philosophy dictated by management, not the loco's condition.

Specifically referring to TVRM, the mission of TVRM is to represent American railroading during the transition period from steam to diesel. The simple reason that they use diesels as much as they do is that there are no more steam locomotives left to be acquired. That said, there are some individuals who are displeased with them as they gave the one most historic steam locomotive they had (Central of Georgia No. 349) to the children's hospital. Technically it's on loan-realistically its a gift to them. Historically, TVRM has a history of disposing of any steam locomotive that has any historic value-the one locomotive that had a history in Chattanooga (Southern Wood Preserving No. 3) was sold to Paul Merriman who then sold it to Jerry Jacobsen. So the only locomotive that had a Chattanooga history is now at Age of Steam.

The addition of water to this discussion rang a bell with me.

Williams is in the territory where ATSF was authorized to buy and operate FT diesels during WWII despite the Navy's need for the power plants in its ships. The diesel territory was from Barstow to Winslow and the reasoning was there was not enough water to supply steam locomotives between those points.

If the War Production Board diverted diesel production from the USN to a railroad, the situation had to be critical.

Phil Mulligan

Water has always been critical in Arizona. Now it's even more critical with the continued drawdown of Lake Meade. Current elevation is 1,084 feet and minimum elevation for power generation is 1,050 feet. At 895 feet, water discharge stops as this is the elevation of the lowest discharge pipes. Projections for this year are bleak-Bureau of Reclamation projects that the water level will drop 20 feet this year.