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 Post subject: AFT 2.0
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:30 am
Posts: 122
I know that Ross Rowland is working on American Freedom Train 2.0 for USA 250 in 2026. I know there are a lot of mainline steam locomotives to have his double header train. I'm all for it but I have a few concerns about it. And they are for Ross Rowland

one concern is bureaucracy I'm not so sure that the railroads would cooperate to run this train steam powered. not just class 1s but shortlines and tourists lines well okay tourists lines maybe. I don't know if these railroads like CSX, CP, CN would allow steam locomotives to run on their tracks. CSX is partners with C&O 2716 group but I don't know it will be operating before this project is completed or happens at all. I don't know. I know that the Union Pacific wouldn't let non-UP steam on their tracks so I don't think that SP 4449 will operate on the UP.

I don't know who will sponsors this project I'm sure that Ross doesn't know either.

The biggest concern is I don't how much time that Ross has on this Earth. I Know he's in his 70's so that should be a concern. I don't know about him health wise.

I would love to see the next freedom train. I never witness the oringel because I wasn't born yet.

Don't take this the wrong way. these are just a few concerns that I have.


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 Post subject: Re: AFT 2.0
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:32 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 613
I get first dibs on selling popcorn, beer, and rotten tomatoes to throw.


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 Post subject: Re: AFT 2.0
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:49 pm 

Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 10:03 am
Posts: 96
I’ll sell the soapboxes! >:)


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 Post subject: Re: AFT 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:03 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:50 pm
Posts: 459
All,

Come to our 2100 Fundraising event on September 21 in Cleveland and you can ask Ross yourself these questions! Tickets are still for sale. All are welcome and all proceeds go towards returning Reading 2100 to service!

https://www.fireup2100.org/product/lege ... s-rowland/

Sincerely,

Rob Gardner
ASR VP and 2100 Project Manager


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 Post subject: Re: AFT 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:21 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:32 pm
Posts: 12
2716 should be done by then. I don’t represent KSHCO, but everyone I’ve talked to has said about a year and half for it’s restoration, placing it around 2020/beginning of 2021. I don’t know if this would still influence CSX to run an AFT, since no one is sure if 2716 would be allowed to operate on CSX mainline at this point in time. I would definitely ask Mr. Rowland your questions though.


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 Post subject: Re: AFT 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:57 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:07 am
Posts: 708
Location: Philadelphia Pa
My $.02

Rail logistics aside....

With the current political climate of this Country and the lack of respect for it (which has been growing for years), I don't see this as even being worth the physical effort it needs to even happen, let alone the financial investment. I'm sure Ross would say differently, but lets look at some facts....

1976 there were some serious issues in our Country but I feel it was nothing like today. With the 16+ million middle aged guys and gals who had risked their lives for our freedom in WW2 just 30 some years prior and their spouses and children, the 4.5 million servicemen and their families from WW1 (who were grandparents by 1976), the 2.5 million who served in Vietnam and their families, as well as those families of the fallen from all 3 wars, all standing proudly, there was something to bolster support of National pride, that, despite the climate regarding the Vietnam War itself.

In 1945, 20% of the US population (then about 140 million) were.serving or had served in the Military. Today we still have around 1.4 million serving and another 800,000 reserves, but that's only about 0.5% of the current US population., which stands at around 330 million. There are about 2.1 million retired military currently.

Ask the average citizen how many are serving and they'll probably give you a blank stare or say "a couple thousand?"

In 1976, we lived in a country that was coming off the heels of prosperity, war bonds had or were maturing the middle class was still very robust and domestic goods were still widely produced, employing millions of blue collar workers. Just about every house and business in major cities and small towns flew the American Flag back then on a national holiday like July 4.... 25+ million people who had served our country and their families (for arguments sake, conservatively, lets say for every service person, there were 2 additional family members directly supporting them, so that's nearly 75 million people or 1/3 of the US population of 218 million people in 1976) lead the way with National Pride "for God and Country." Of course, NONE of these numbers include the ancillary people who helped with efforts on the homefront. Corporations that sponsored the AFT were largely based in the USA and run by some of those former servicemen and women.....Railroads, though financially struggling big time in 1976, were still a major part of American life; they still went through just about every City and town. It all made sense.

None of this is the case today.

Is it worth the effort? I'm sure Ross (and others) would say "even more so the reason to do it!".....and I do agree - the reality is we NEED something to bolster pride in our Country......but is it feasible?....not in my opinion. I know Ross raises money for retired military through efforts like these but I fear the costs will far outweigh the benefits this time around for AFT2.

Disclaimer: I'm not implying that the AFT2 is a military pride parade type event or that the service of those today in the military is any less diminished than their predecessors but rather stating a fact that its theme is about pride in America, which is not felt on the same level as it was some 50 years ago, when we had a much greater number of people holding direct pride in our Country, which in large part was based on our success in defense and home grown production..


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 Post subject: Re: AFT 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:17 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:08 pm
Posts: 307
Location: Amherst, Oh
steamfan765 wrote:
The biggest concern is I don't how much time that Ross has on this Earth. I Know he's in his 70's so that should be a concern. I don't know about him health wise.



Taking politics out of it, and ignoring Ross' health, it sounds like you're a younger guy with an interest in this event. Have you tried reaching out to Ross to help? Have you tried putting on something like this yourself? Yeah, it's a big project, but nobody knows how to do any of this until they've tried. Maybe you'll be successful, maybe not, but if you want it bad enough go try to make it happen.


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 Post subject: Re: AFT 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:56 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4138
Location: Maine
First off, Ross has a proven record for successfully getting these types of events going, despite what nay-sayers churn up. If such an event was to happen, Ross will be holding the cards close to his vest. Second, this is a very difficult thing to pull off, even when you have a co-operative carrier involved in discussions. Third, I'd advise you to not try to tease Mr. Rowland into a response. He doesn't need the b.s., and what gets typed online likely won't help promote such an event. Public response to 611, 844, and 4014 does.

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"It's only impossible until it's done." -Nelson Mandela


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 Post subject: Re: AFT 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:15 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 421
What sources are there for the rolling stock in this day and age? The original display cars were ex PC baggage cars of various heritages. Sadly they met with the scrappers torch in the 90's or early 2000's. UP cut up one of the original power cars from the AFT as well.

Is there enough of the circus train cars available for remodeling into AFT 2.0 stock?

Lastly, It would be nice if CSX would somehow see the "light of day" and help Ross get C&O 614 in operation for such an event.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: AFT 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:27 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 397
Location: Danbury, CT
I was born four years too late to see the AFT, so forgive me if I’m not studied up on it. Wasn’t the point of the AFT to bring the most significant historical artifacts to people who otherwise may never have a chance to see them? Would the 2.0 version do the same? If so, access to those artifacts is sure to be difficult if not near impossible to arrange. No?

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 Post subject: Re: AFT 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:07 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 421
July 4, 1976 was a central event in the memory of the American Revolution. The Bicentennial culminated on Sunday, July 4, 1976, with the 200th anniversary of the adoption of the Declaration of Independence. But yes, the AFT gave average citizens the opportunity to see our priceless artifacts.

With all the crazy stuff happening these days, I'd think terrorism threats would be a major blow to another AFT event. I don't know how willing the govt would be to grant those priceless artifacts to be put on board a train and sent traveling all over the country? As noted, Things are a lot different in this country now.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: AFT 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:26 pm 

Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 2:46 pm
Posts: 213
Steamfan765,

You made a big mistake about bringing up age as a concern. It equally rates right up there with all other prejudices. My father worked as a Township Clerk to 95 years of age. His expertise was applying for grants for all the schools in his district and also taking care of senior citizens by having free meal days on Wednesdays at the township office and free transportation services so seniors could get to their doctor appointments. I just saw on PBS an 85 year old man complete a triathlon in San Francisco. Any kind of discrimination should not be tolerated here. Keep your age concerns to yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: AFT 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:43 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 397
Location: Danbury, CT
BigBoy 4023 wrote:
July 4, 1976 was a central event in the memory of the American Revolution. The Bicentennial culminated on Sunday, July 4, 1976, with the 200th anniversary of the adoption of the Declaration of Independence. But yes, the AFT gave average citizens the opportunity to see our priceless artifacts.

With all the crazy stuff happening these days, I'd think terrorism threats would be a major blow to another AFT event. I don't know how willing the govt would be to grant those priceless artifacts to be put on board a train and sent traveling all over the country? As noted, Things are a lot different in this country now.

Robert



As an American citizen and a lover of history, I am fully aware of the significance of the bicentennial and similar celebrations. In 1986, we celebrated the sesquicentennial in Texas. BIG party!

The AFT 2.0 event would be little more than a train ride without the artifacts and displays. I don’t think the caretakers of those items will allow them to travel without security measures that would ultimately prove too prohibitive. I would love to be wrong, though.

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Randy Patterson
RMNE/NAUG


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 Post subject: Re: AFT 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:36 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9254
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
Richard Glueck wrote:
First off, Ross has a proven record for successfully getting these types of events going, despite what nay-sayers churn up.


His record, in baseball terminology, translates to a batting average of .500.

Far better than any "armchair warrior" dreamer, but still not a "sure bet."


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 Post subject: Re: AFT 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:44 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:33 am
Posts: 24
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Richard Glueck wrote:
First off, Ross has a proven record for successfully getting these types of events going, despite what nay-sayers churn up.


His record, in baseball terminology, translates to a batting average of .500.

Far better than any "armchair warrior" dreamer, but still not a "sure bet."


And of those succeses how many have happened in the last 20 years? What happens when Ross shows up at the western roads demanding "coal fired locomotives only, and NO GREEN SAFETY VESTS"? That runs so counter to at least UP's policy (and probably frowned on likely by BNSF) the majority of the western US would be unavailable to Ross's train it would render the idea of a national tour moot.


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