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 Post subject: Soo Line Wood Outside Braced Boxcars
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:18 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 402
Location: Pure Michigan
I recently discovered what I think is a Soo Line wood outside braced boxcar at the Iron County Historical Society in Caspian, Michigan. Any ideas as what its number is?
Image
Image

I also photographed another Soo Line wood outside braced boxcar at the IXL Historical Museum in Hermansville, Michigan. Any ideas as what its number is?
Image

Are there any other survivors?


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 Post subject: Re: Soo Line Wood Outside Braced Boxcars
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:25 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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NS 33322 -

From the windows and door added to the car in Caspian, it appears that the Soo converted it into a camp car of some type.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Soo Line Wood Outside Braced Boxcars
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:50 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
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Location: Northern Illinois
The car at Caspian does not appear to be a Soo Line car, possibly C&NW.

Hard to tell about the other car, but physical attributes mark it as one of several thousand built by AC&F in 1913, 14, and 15.

IRM as three similar cars from the Soo, built in 1913, 1914, and 1929. There are several others in various museums around the country.

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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: Soo Line Wood Outside Braced Boxcars
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:55 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:19 am
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Location: Scottsboro, AL
Laona & Northern Railroad (Camp Five Museum) has one, converted to an open car for the Lumberjack Steam Train.


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 Post subject: Re: Soo Line Wood Outside Braced Boxcars
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:21 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
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Location: Danbury, CT
Makes for a good looking open air car.

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 Post subject: Re: Soo Line Wood Outside Braced Boxcars
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:38 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Dennis Storzek wrote:
The car at Caspian does not appear to be a Soo Line car, possibly C&NW.

Hard to tell about the other car, but physical attributes mark it as one of several thousand built by AC&F in 1913, 14, and 15.

IRM as three similar cars from the Soo, built in 1913, 1914, and 1929. There are several others in various museums around the country.


Dennis - If the car at Caspian really IS a former, C&NW car, I think it might be pretty rare. I think there are a few Soo Line outside braced (single sheathed) boxcars in existence, but I can't seem to recall any C&NW o.b. boxcars.


Les


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 Post subject: Re: Soo Line Wood Outside Braced Boxcars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:01 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 402
Location: Pure Michigan
Thanks all! I forgot about the car at the Laona museum (it has been about 10 years since I visited). I did not realize IRM had a few of these!

I will try to send an email to the museum in Caspian to find out more about the car. (There was no one to ask when I took the photos). They also have a rare Upper Peninsula streetcar on display, but that could be a whole other thread. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Soo Line Wood Outside Braced Boxcars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:18 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm
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Check the trucks, many cast side frames have the road initials cast in along with the date. At least some roads painted the car number above the center doors on the inside.


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 Post subject: Re: Soo Line Wood Outside Braced Boxcars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:01 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1426
What is it that suggests that the car in the first post is C&NW rather than Soo Line?


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 Post subject: Re: Soo Line Wood Outside Braced Boxcars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:02 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Les Beckman wrote:
Dennis Storzek wrote:
The car at Caspian does not appear to be a Soo Line car, possibly C&NW.


Dennis - If the car at Caspian really IS a former, C&NW car, I think it might be pretty rare. I think there are a few Soo Line outside braced (single sheathed) boxcars in existence, but I can't seem to recall any C&NW o.b. boxcars.


Les


Dennis -

I found another existing Chicago and North Western car:

https://www.midcontinent.org/equipment- ... nw123576a/

Not sure if Mid-Continent applied the outside paneling to this outside braced car, of if it was done by the North Western. Anyway, the car apparently survived as a company service camp car. Not sure if the road number is one that was used when the car was in regular service.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Soo Line Wood Outside Braced Boxcars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:40 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
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Location: Northern Illinois
Les,

If you click ahead couple photos, there is a builder's photo:

Image

Same diagonal brace at the lower ends of the sides, same attachment of the end posts to the outer face of the end sill (the Soo cars all run behind the sill). I think we have a winner.

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 Post subject: Re: Soo Line Wood Outside Braced Boxcars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:17 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
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Location: Northern Illinois
Ron Travis wrote:
What is it that suggests that the car in the first post is C&NW rather than Soo Line?


Well, Les came up with a matching C&NW car, so that's what it is.

But from a Soo historian's perspective, MOST Soo Line single sheathed boxcars shared the structural angle side sill construction exhibited in photos of the cars at Hermansville and Laona above. On these cars the side posts ran below the sill and connected directly to the cross bearers. Some other roads had similar cars, but the Soo really liked this construction, and ended up with similar cars from four builders. In fact, they only had three small groups of cars with conventional channel side sills:

750 36' cars built by AC&F in 1912 that were virtual copies of the Canadian Pacific's Dominion Car & Foundry cars. These had the same end sill construction as the later cars, with the end posts running behind the end sill.

200 door and a half auto cars built by AC&F in 1924. Aside from being auto cars, these had pressed steel ends.

250 boxcars rebuilt from older cars at North Fond du Lac in 1950 and 51. These rebuilds did have the end posts attached to the outer face of the end sill, but had modern all steel diagonal panel roofs, unlike the boxy wood fascia showing in the photo of the car in question.

Finding no possible match in the Soo Line fleet, and knowing that the DSS&A didn't have single sheathed cars, The next logical source was the C&NW, which turns out to be correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Soo Line Wood Outside Braced Boxcars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:25 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1426
Dennis Storzek wrote:
Les,

If you click ahead couple photos, there is a builder's photo:

Image

Same diagonal brace at the lower ends of the sides, same attachment of the end posts to the outer face of the end sill (the Soo cars all run behind the sill). I think we have a winner.



Oh yes, I see the diagonal brace on the C&NW cars. I don't know if such a brace was ever used on the Soo Line cars. If not, that confirms that it is not a Soo Line car.

However, I could be wrong, but I recall learning that Soo Line outside braced cars were built in both versions of the bottom Z connections to the frame; one with the Zs attached to the outsides of the side sills, and one with the Zs attached to the ends of cross beams. I will have to dig out my old Soo magazines.


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 Post subject: Re: Soo Line Wood Outside Braced Boxcars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:31 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2455
Location: Northern Illinois
Only on the North Fond du Lac rebuilds of the early fifties, and those had all steel roofs. In addition, they used a continuous steel band below the side plates as the connection between posts and plate, rather than the triangular gussets.

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 Post subject: Re: Soo Line Wood Outside Braced Boxcars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:16 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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So, it would be nice if we could now find the road number for the C&NW car there in Caspian. John T. suggested a couple of places to look. Also, the number was sometimes painted on the underframe, usually toward the center. And some roads painted the car number on the inside, next to the center door. Not sure what the Chicago and North Western's policy was.


Les


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