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 Post subject: Re: Professional Courtesy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:55 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 882
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWwAk7XwoWY

This guy just sounds cheap to me, too cheap to be a volunteer rail preservationist IMHO.


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 Post subject: Re: Professional Courtesy
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:17 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:05 pm
Posts: 82
What bothers me about Otto's visitor is he does not seem friendly. If he was truly interested in the operation shouldn't he have talked with Otto in depth? I'm sure Otto could go into detail about many things. Sounds like he barely talked with Otto.

Seems strange that the visitor didn't even show interest in when Otto pointed out where he could get a great photo of the excursion train from the parking lot for free. To me Otto went above and beyond in pointing that out.

I agree with the others in that this person wanted access for free. Even if he were from the Smithsonian it's not fair to be admitted for free. At the very least would have been good form if the visitor asked for a (private) tour in exchange for paying admission and/or making a donation provided Otto's organization did not need every single volunteer to assist with their special event.*

*From what Otto wrote sounds like the volunteer who let the visitor in/showed him around was free to work on a project as opposed to helping out with the event in progress. Is that correct?

Yes, some of us railfans are cheap. When I visit IRM at Union have no need to pay to enter as I'm a paid member - free admission (other than for select special events) i a perk of being a member. But that is a different situation than what Otto ran into here. And if I were visiting a museum I'm not a member of I'll pony up the admission fee or make a donation - fair is fair plus all museums can use every dollar they can get.


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 Post subject: Re: Professional Courtesy
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:14 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:57 am
Posts: 202
If you want special access, you should expect to pay for it. I recently visited the National Transport Museum in Dublin, Ireland. I was going to be in the area midweek and sent an email to ask if anyone would be on the property to let my wife and I in. I received a reply that they are normally closed midweek, but that there was a special tour group visiting that we were welcome to join. I thought we'd be paying general admission and just following the tour group. Nope, we were led in the door and straight past the ticket booth and into the collection. When my wife and I realized what was up, we broke away for a moment and discussed this. We decided to just have a cash donation in their collection box that was a bit more than twice the admission price, and made sure to let the docent know before we left. There's no feeling of accomplishment in being a cheapskate jerk to a non-profit organization.


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 Post subject: Re: Professional Courtesy
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:24 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2604
Otto Vondrak wrote:
"I don't drink," is all he said. Prices were double our normal entry because of the al
"That's fine, you can purchase a Designated Driver ticket for $15, and still get admission to the museum, our restoration shop, and unlimited train rides."

....

What do you think?

-otto-


I think you were entirely reasonable. $15? I'll probably spend close to that for a burger, fries and a coke at my favorite burger spot. If I support your operation at all, I can afford to toss $15 or $20 at buying a ticket or leaving a donation.

For me, "professional courtesy" extends more to "off menu" items, not admission. In the past, cab rides were a common offer, though these days they tend to be ticketed events. Access to areas not open to the general public would be another one, such as your restoration shop or storage barns. If I was somebody you don't know and or I don't know the site, I'd expect to be accompanied by a member for safety and security, rather than just being allowed to wander at random, but getting a "back stage" tour is a nice perk that doesn't cost the organization much. (Using a volunteer's time is a cost of sorts).

These days, it's nothing to drop $100 on just a casual grocery run of a few bags. Most of us can afford the $15. Now I don't know his circumstances, but if he can afford gas to get to your location, he can probably afford to donate. If he believes in your mission, there's really no excuse not to.

Oh, and unlimited train rides for $15? Sounds like a great deal to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Professional Courtesy
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:50 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 954
Location: Tucson, Arizona
$15 is nothing these days. In the trolley business, one of the courtesies that many trolley operators offer (conditions permitting) is to allow a certified motorman from one organization to drive a car/train under supervision of an instructor with the expectation that the visitor will extend the same courtesy to one of their members in the future. As I was an instructor for our road, I had many opportunities to talk shop with other instructors while operating as a guest on their roads.

At Pennsylvania Trolley Museum, I was one of the first operators to drive the Port Authority PCC 4004 after it got donated to them. Instructor told me that they hadn't intended to operate the 4004-until that is, they started giving it a mechanical inspection. When they inspected it, they discovered that the parts and electronics were either new or freshly rebuilt. Instead of sending it out as is, PA basically rebuilt it before sending it out to pasture. That changed PTM's tune. The only thing was that PA had removed the rear hostler's control panel, so when it came time to put her away, the instructor went to the rear and gave me directions for backing it in.

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"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."- Conductor Nimrod Bell, 1896


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 Post subject: Re: Professional Courtesy
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:55 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:05 am
Posts: 58
Location: Glen Ellyn, IL
I'm a long time member and past president of IRM and a former officer of ARM, TRAIN, ATRRM and HRA. I ALWAYS pay full price when I visit a RR museum or tourist RR. In fact, I usually don't even mention who I am. It's nice to be incognito.


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 Post subject: Re: Professional Courtesy
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 569
Location: New Franklin, OH
Robert Opal wrote:
I'm a long time member and past president of IRM and a former officer of ARM, TRAIN, ATRRM and HRA. I ALWAYS pay full price when I visit a RR museum or tourist RR. In fact, I usually don't even mention who I am. It's nice to be incognito.

Same here. I always pay and don't volunteer my affiliation unless I'm under contract and must access the facility or equipment to complete my work.

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Orrville Railroad Heritage Society
Car Knocker, Gandy Dancer & Hog Jockey
http://www.orrvillerailroad.com


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 Post subject: Re: Professional Courtesy
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: Southern California
jayrod wrote:
Robert Opal wrote:
I'm a long time member and past president of IRM and a former officer of ARM, TRAIN, ATRRM and HRA. I ALWAYS pay full price when I visit a RR museum or tourist RR. In fact, I usually don't even mention who I am. It's nice to be incognito.
Same here. I always pay and don't volunteer my affiliation unless I'm under contract and must access the facility or equipment to complete my work.
Same with me. I was at one time the Secretary-Treasurer-Newletter Editor for ARM and later on its Board of Directors. I've been 50+ years a member of Orange Empire (Southern California RM) and served that organization in many positions.

But I've always paid the "nickle" or what ever the fare or entrance fee. Some times, I'd be at the museum a day prior to the planned conference or event; but, for that day I'd pay my way. This is to see the site as any other member of the public.

Besides I think that it is only fair to pay the fee -- the money is always needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Professional Courtesy
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 594
Location: Byers, Colorado
No fooling, if the place is worth visiting, it's worth paying admission. I don't keep my railroad experience a secret, but I make very sure not to shove it in anybody's face. If they want to extend courtesies after that, I am very appreciative, but I don't expect it.

When I visited Wolstyn, Poland, they let us stay in the crew dormitory for a very nominal fee, I think $12. The next morning when we tried to pay the very nominal museum admission, they said "You already paid, now you're our guest". We made a donation anyway. In cases like this, if they won't let me buy a ticket or pay admission, I at least offer to buy dinner or beer afterwards, or get somebody's address and send some photos, hats, or other goodies later.

When I've had the chance, I not only extend "professional courtesy" as often as possible, but I extend it to civilians, tourists, hobbyists, and ESPECIALLY the young, not just "professionals". This includes the 13 years I worked for BN, when our business had nothing to do with making people who are interested in trains happy.

I can only remember two occasions over the years when I have NOT been extended "professional courtesy". THANKS ONCE AGAIN to countless railroaders I've met in my travels....

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Sammy KIng


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 Post subject: Re: Professional Courtesy
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:01 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:34 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Brewster, Ohio
I visited the orrville historical society yesterday to meet up with someone. I donated to the collections box. Paid to ride the speeders witch was fantastic. And one of there members where nice enough to show us the cab of 471. If you do talk to someone and say you are with a certain organization don't try to get free stuff. It makes you look stupid. Drop in an say Hi, and donate.


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 Post subject: Re: Professional Courtesy
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 2071
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
People are always looking to give themselves some type of bona-fide to make themselves 'worthy' of not having to spend the money.
I can't count the number of family members of veterans who would demand free access to displayed WW2 planes at 'barnstorming' visits (a B-17 costs over $2K an hour to run and that's gotta come from somewhere), for example.
Heck, I worked at a Kinko's copies in college back in the 90s and I'll never forget the gal who came in demanding free copies because her Dad supposedly worked for Xerox. I point out that we didn't have anything built by them and even if we did, even her Dad wouldn't get free stuff. Even the people standing around her were trying to explain the same thing as she was holding up the line. She never understood.
There are just people like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Professional Courtesy
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:54 am
Posts: 9
p51 wrote:
Heck, I worked at a Kinko's copies in college back in the 90s and I'll never forget the gal who came in demanding free copies because her Dad supposedly worked for Xerox.


Ha ha that sounds familiar! Around the same time, I worked at Old Country Buffet for a few years one summer (at least it seemed like a few years). At the time, they had a free-meal program for seniors; every week we drew the names of two registered entrants and then they (or their whole family, I don't remember) got a free meal some time during the week. But first you had to register for the drawing. But at least fifty times a day, other seniors used to come in and demand free meals too; they had countless scams or reasons why they "should have" won instead.


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 Post subject: Re: Professional Courtesy
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:02 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1701
Location: Strasburg, PA
The last "sunrise mixed" train we ran ($15 cash fare to the conductor, exact change encouraged) had two, count'em two paying passengers, and a good two dozen chasers. As one passenger paid his fare, I glanced at the gentleman standing next to him, and he volunteered that while he was planning to chase the train, he would be happy buy a ticket, but alas, all he was carrying was $100's.

Not much encouragement to run them any more.

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Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


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 Post subject: Max
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:32 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:21 am
Posts: 26
On August 11th this past summer, I extended professional courtesy
to Max the dog, when he came to ride with me on a 2-car
South Shore train at the East Troy Electric Railroad.

Max has his own facebook page called "Where's Max today?"

I do not do facebook, but Max is on there and there are
pictures and video from his interurban train ride.


Last edited by Chuck Richards on Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Professional Courtesy
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:46 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 558
Location: B'more Maryland
Kelly Anderson wrote:
The last "sunrise mixed" train we ran ($15 cash fare to the conductor, exact change encouraged) had two, count'em two paying passengers, and a good two dozen chasers. As one passenger paid his fare, I glanced at the gentleman standing next to him, and he volunteered that while he was planning to chase the train, he would be happy buy a ticket, but alas, all he was carrying was $100's.

Not much encouragement to run them any more.



And this is why I wanted to print up a banner last time we ran an excursion. If the train didn't sell out the lead unit was going to be festooned with "NEXT TIME BUY A TICKET"

Luckily the train sold out, but my warped sense of justice makes me still relish the idea.


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