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 Post subject: Re: IPH Equipment: Current & Past
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:20 pm
Posts: 37
Location: Denver, CO
AlcoGuy wrote:
The equipment in Kokomo is SLRG 3110,1721,5120, and either 3310 or 3510. The E unit is #101. Rumors in the area have ITM trying to buy this consist, but can't confirm.


Thanks! I've seen photos of the consist from a last year and the year before and I wasn't sure if they were still kept in the area or not.

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 Post subject: Re: IPH Equipment: Current & Past
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:00 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:32 pm
Posts: 15
Hey folks,

Without laying all of my cards on the table, I’d like to gently guide this discussion to some safe ground. The last discussion here ended poorly. Let’s not go there again, please.

Wasatch Railroad Contractors represented (and still represents) one of the leading lending companies bought out by Stanton. As a person who is deeply “in the know” I’d share with all of you a few things;

1. The above list (which took a huge amount of time to compile) has a number of inaccurate ownership issues. None of which need or should be corrected. My intention is not to troll the page. I am saying, there are and have been and I suspect continue to be disputes over “actual” ownership of items.

2. Issue number 1 brings with it great conflict over who owes who for such things as repairs, storage and movement of items, further complicating issue number 1.

3. Some items are trapped by some companies who want nothing to do with the mess of it all and if issue 1 and 2 aren’t enough, now add in a third party who could care less and doesn’t want to participate anyway.

4. Now add to the mix cities, companies or municipalities that can’t sort out issues 1-3 and you end up with legal action and liens that rightfully, will be hard for any court to A) exercise jurisdiction over, more or less enforce if they could.

My point is; none of us would ever want to find ourselves in IPH’s shoes. Beyond not wanting to be in these shoes, none of us would want discussions like this going on as these discussions, on an open forum can, and often do complicate matters as much of what is being discussed is “hearsay.” I’m only pointing out that due to inaccurate (as unintentional as it is, I get it) information in the leading post, this thread could be going a direction that was unintended, yet equally as damaging even though that wasn’t the intention. The intention was to record for history current locations. Pure intention.

May I suggest that the thread remain open.... but that we stray away from any comment that isn’t 100% proven, vetted and factual. The speculation on comments could distract sellers, buyers and owners and place RYPN in a bad position.

Let this all play out. When items find new homes, discuss it and record it. Beyond that, we should leave it be.

Just a gentle recommendation from somebody who is (was) deep on the inside.

John E. Rimmasch

From my IPhone, mistakes and all.

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 Post subject: Re: IPH Equipment: Current & Past
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9309
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
MTDX is/was a group that bought up a bunch of METRA's retired C&NW gallery cars for brokering out, along with a few locos (the blue E8s that ran on MARC in the 1990s before MARC grabbed ex-BN E's were another of their projects). They got undercut after their buy-up by Federal regs mandating transfer of surplus commuter equipment to other agencies for free/token $1 if Federal dollars had been spent on them, so they ended up with a fleet of C&NW gallery cars that has drifted around randon storage locations in the Chicago area ever since--even, at one point, a Lake Michigan pier. A scant few have ended up in other locations--four got sold/leased to the Gold Coast RR Museum, for example, and stray examples from either Metra or MTDX seem to have replaced the "Lackawanna MU car" as the standard "it shows up everywhere" car of rail preservation, along with the LIRR 'breadboxes."

My understanding is that there MAY have, at one point, been some business overlap between MTDX and Iowa Pacific; I know that MTDX owned the (supposedly) ONLY two actual ex-IC (later Paducah-shopped NJT) E8s, and was dickering with IC fanatic Ed Ellis for some time but never, as far as I know, reached any deal. That bunch of locos, last I heard, were over in Cleveland near/in the same facilities as the 2100 group, Cuyahoga Valley Scenic, and/or whoever, along with some "support/storage" baggage cars that have long accompanied the E8s. There was also a Monon-painted E8 (a FairTrain refugee?) in the mess somewhere when the outfit was running out of the EJ&E shops in Joliet around 2000, before they were evicted from there and the shops demolished.

Notably, however, I don't recall seeing any of the MTDX fleet being actually used by IPH, nor listed as any of their assets in the various news reports about the revent "implosion" of IPH/SL&RG/SNC/etc.

This is, all in all, as probably ambiguous an ownership/custody/ mess as anything else surrounding Iowa Pacific Holdings, SL&RG, etc., and to be honest some messiness surrounds almost any privately-owned rail equipment in the nation, from freight cars owned by equipment trusts or leasing companies but operated under the name of a railroad company, to who actually "owns" any private historic locomotive. So, don't assume that if you see them on adjacent tracks or whatever that they're in the same mess. It might still be a mess or in one, but not IPH's as far as I know (which may not say much after all these years).....


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 Post subject: Re: IPH Equipment: Current & Past
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:20 pm
Posts: 37
Location: Denver, CO
Wasatch RR Cont wrote:
My point is; none of us would ever want to find ourselves in IPH’s shoes. Beyond not wanting to be in these shoes, none of us would want discussions like this going on as these discussions, on an open forum can, and often do complicate matters as much of what is being discussed is “hearsay.” I’m only pointing out that due to inaccurate (as unintentional as it is, I get it) information in the leading post, this thread could be going a direction that was unintended, yet equally as damaging even though that wasn’t the intention. The intention was to record for history current locations. Pure intention.

May I suggest that the thread remain open.... but that we stray away from any comment that isn’t 100% proven, vetted and factual. The speculation on comments could distract sellers, buyers and owners and place RYPN in a bad position.


The intention (which you have correctly identified) was purely to attempt to record where every thing currently is. The mistake I made was also at least trying to iron out a few of the issues which, for whatever reasons, didn't exactly cross my mind as being the smartest thing to do. I certainly didn't want to stir up some discomfort with this listing.

What I am going to do is take a moment to leave such references to ownership that I know are verified (concerning equipment that has been officially sold) and remove those with which is questionable at best (which admittedly is more than we'd all like I think) in the various listings and leave purely locations and movements only.

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 Post subject: Re: IPH Equipment: Current & Past
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:55 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 630
VinylRailfan wrote:
What I am going to do is take a moment to leave such references to ownership that I know are verified (concerning equipment that has been officially sold) and remove those with which is questionable at best (which admittedly is more than we'd all like I think) in the various listings and leave purely locations and movements only.
The question marks you included after ownership made it clear to me that you were speculating.


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 Post subject: Re: IPH Equipment: Current & Past
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:48 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:32 pm
Posts: 15
Wil,

I know your intentions were and are pure. You’ve done some hard work. Clearly. I might add; even the ones you think you may know for sure, may not be 100% accurate. If you want to chat about any of them, call me. Like I said, I’m not here to troll you or the page. Good intentions, hard work, there just seem to be a few items that don’t match what a few of us may know that are “in the know.”

Keep making good efforts to record it all. The history is important!

JohnE.

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 Post subject: Re: IPH Equipment: Current & Past
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:50 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:04 pm
Posts: 151
That is a very impressive roster. Thanks to who ever did all that research.

I was in Alamosa, Colorado around 3 weeks ago. I can verify that ex Carolina Southern F unit #9163, Ex Canadian National B unit #6622, and both F units from the ex Minnesota dinner train were sitting there. All locomotives have been neglected but overall pretty good condition. There was a Ex Alaska railroad E booster unit (with B unit trucks) sitting in the middle of the yard in good condition.

Many GP40FH locomotives in storage both in main yard and annex yard. E9A,#100 was operational and in excellent condition. It was performing some switching duties in the main yard. E9A,#100 was previously working freight duty. It was replaced by SD70's. Crew said SD70's will be used as main motive power for both excursion trains and freight trains.


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 Post subject: Re: IPH Equipment: Current & Past
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:15 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:04 pm
Posts: 151
I believe Iowa Pacific is in the hole for something like 3 million? I can't imagine it would take that long to sell some surplus locomotives and cars to reach that amount. Dome cars typically sell for the $500,000-$750,000 range. Those GP40FH locomotives should be blue carded and fetch at least $250,000 each. Not sure what a SD70 is going for but likely in the $400,000 range.


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 Post subject: Re: IPH Equipment: Current & Past
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:33 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:42 pm
Posts: 5
Tom F wrote:
I believe Iowa Pacific is in the hole for something like 3 million? I can't imagine it would take that long to sell some surplus locomotives and cars to reach that amount. Dome cars typically sell for the $500,000-$750,000 range. Those GP40FH locomotives should be blue carded and fetch at least $250,000 each. Not sure what a SD70 is going for but likely in the $400,000 range.


Not trying to head down a rabbit hole here but with the large number of parked GEs and EMDs that belong to lessors and Class 1s I find it hard to believe that there's even a market for power like this on the secondary market due to the squeeze being caused by PSR. As to the cost of domes and other first class cars, I would imagine that market is not at all what it was a few years back since Amtrak has put some excellent cars out in that market. IMO, it is wishful thinking that the Polar and other train markets can support these prices. That said I expect that the most important equipment owned by IPH, or others, will not be lost. It just will not be a listed prices due to the basic rules of supply and demand.

I would speculate that many stored GEs and EMDs will be scrapped over the next few years due to the PSR focus by the railroads which isn't good for their longer term growth along with the emissions Tier requirements and locomotive quality issues but I digress.


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 Post subject: Re: IPH Equipment: Current & Past
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:54 am
Posts: 13
New773 wrote:
These pics are from about a month ago.


Hmmmm, they've moved them since I saw them last.

Some of the ex-C&NW cars looked like they had raging fires in them!


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 Post subject: Re: IPH Equipment: Current & Past
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:19 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:47 pm
Posts: 112
Location: Arizona
It seems no one has mentioned the 0-4-0 fireless (built by Porter, I believe) stashed behind the (former) Alamosa steam shop.


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 Post subject: Re: IPH Equipment: Current & Past
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:08 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:35 pm
Posts: 80
Quote:
I can't imagine it would take that long to sell some surplus locomotives and cars to reach that amount.


The problem is that the market is flooded. With the sale of the RBBX circus train the Amtrak Heritage fleet and the limitations and uncertainty surrounding Amtrak's cooperation moving private cars, its pretty safe to say that most folks who want a passenger car (and an increasing number of people who don't) have at least one passenger car.

Less than two years ago CSX parked 1000 locomotives, other class ones have been auctioning off and scrapping locomotives like there's no tomorrow these units are of all sizes. Leasing companies are scrapping engines as well.

Short of a few special pieces, it could prove exceedingly difficult to get "full price" for much of the equipment, especially if there is a timeline.


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 Post subject: Re: IPH Equipment: Current & Past
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:54 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:53 pm
Posts: 15
Other than the cabooses listed, did IPH ever have any freight cars leased or owned? I haven’t checked in awhile, but there is/was a former NYC boxcar still in full NYC paint in Elk Grove Village, IL while Chicago Terminal was run by IPH. It was parked on one of the branches, not private sidings last I saw it. Just wondering if this was something Ed Ellis held from scrap but did nothing with, or it really was just abandoned?


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 Post subject: Re: IPH Equipment: Current & Past
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:47 pm
Posts: 112
Location: Arizona
New773 wrote:
Other than the cabooses listed, did IPH ever have any freight cars leased or owned? I haven’t checked in awhile, but there is/was a former NYC boxcar still in full NYC paint in Elk Grove Village, IL while Chicago Terminal was run by IPH. It was parked on one of the branches, not private sidings last I saw it. Just wondering if this was something Ed Ellis held from scrap but did nothing with, or it really was just abandoned?


I recall EEE saying something about an NYC boxcar he found. It was to have come to ALA to be part of a historic freight train were wanting to assemble for photo freights. The SP cupola caboose was part of that plan. there were some other cars mentioned, but I don't think they were purchased.


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 Post subject: Re: IPH Equipment: Current & Past
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:33 am 

Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:53 pm
Posts: 15
Wow! Interesting story. I wonder what will become of the car?


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