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 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:15 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 210
Location: Annville, PA
After looking around a bit, I thought I'd better post a pair of examples of the 1969 color as well, also known as Chevrolet Fathom Green...

https://paintref.com/cgi-bin/paintdetai ... pont=5013L

Although I wouldn't totally discount it, I believe that one's not quite olive enough for the Reading. I haven't found any evidence that suggests these two were normally part of the DuPont fleet color selection but they both do appear to possess the ability to fade to black under the right circumstances, not to mention the purely theoretical and otherwise conjectural factors at play here, just like DGLE itself... LOL


Attachments:
69ss.jpg
69ss.jpg [ 70.33 KiB | Viewed 1898 times ]
69vette.jpg
69vette.jpg [ 64.47 KiB | Viewed 1898 times ]


Last edited by NVPete on Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:42 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 210
Location: Annville, PA
Oh, and one more little factoid about that, the color "Brunswick Green" is named after the city of Braunschweig, Germany...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braunschweig

https://encycolorpedia.com/1b4d3e

See, now that would make the choice slightly less difficult if somebody thought either one of those two could be DGLE. I don't feel it would be necessary to post a really nice photograph of a Pennsylvania SD-40 flashing the green to help out, either, so I won't.

A little more paint history, this time concerning some of those old-time mcnasty pigments we're not supposed to be using any longer, but...

https://www.ancient-origins.net/history ... ts-0012572

Both Brunswick Green and Woodfield Green are apparently derivatives of Paris Green and Venetian Yellow, Naples Yellow. That Vermilion looks pretty scary too, Phil. LOL

Here's a pic of some faded Federal Truck Orange for you, though...


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 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:14 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 468
Location: Philadelphia, PA
You are right about Brunswick Green. Braunschweigisches Grün is a family of very dark green copper-based pigments named for Braunschweig, Germany (Brunswick in English).

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:57 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 210
Location: Annville, PA
Thanks, Phil!!! Just a couple notes quick this morning...

Paris Green is known for its color-shifting ability, not only as a result of changing lighting conditions, but also how fine the pigments were ground...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_green

As demonstrated previously, Woodfield Green shares this characteristic. I'm sure everyone here has witnessed it first-hand with the road signs as well. Brunswick Green does the same thing on the darker end of the scale...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shades_of ... wick_green

The Reading didn't use very much Pullman equipment, if at all, because it was a short-haul, large industrial-type railroad with no sleeper-equipped passenger trains of their own. They did, however, have a long-standing and cozy relationship with Baldwin. Heck, they even bought their diesels more than once. Probably the main reason the Reading would use dark olive greens instead of the Pullman-like colors.

One thing I do notice about the Pennsy paint jobs is that they apparently used the darker imitation gold-like color, 93-5607 Yellow, Plate #13, as the lettering and trim color which seems to more closely match the Sunshine Biscuit tin posted on Page 1. That would definitely explain why I can't seem to find Grande Gold/Duco Orange on any Reading locomotive and most likely, never will.

Morat Green is named after the city of Murten, Switzerland...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murten

Finally, just in case you guys think I've run out of stuff to post, here comes that original 1963 Tyco GP-20... LOL


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 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:19 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 210
Location: Annville, PA
BREAKING NEWS!!!

This just in, looks like we have now scored the first two straight off drift cards!!!

From the New York Central System Historical Society...

https://nycshs.org/nyc-colors/

Chevrolet Export Blue, 93-3430 Blue, Plate #70, is one of the Central's herald and striping colors...

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/paintdetail.cgi?dupont=3430

Dodge Banner Green, 93-72218 Green, Plate #97, is also known as NYC's "Century Green"...

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/paintdetail ... pont=72218


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chevyexportblue.jpg
chevyexportblue.jpg [ 55.48 KiB | Viewed 1787 times ]
dodgebannergreen.jpg
dodgebannergreen.jpg [ 53.89 KiB | Viewed 1788 times ]


Last edited by NVPete on Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:14 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 844
Location: New Franklin, OH
I just received a wealth of info on the NS heritage units paint from PPG. New and historic data. When I get a chance, I’ll add it to the cross reference.

Includes: S&A, NYC, RDG, Erie, VGN, WAB, CNJ, IT, PC and DLW. Data also includes EMD drawings that were used for historic reference.

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Orrville Railroad Heritage Society
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 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:16 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 210
Location: Annville, PA
That's even better than my breaking news, Eric!!! This is actually getting sort of exciting now. Way to go, man!!!

And there, that's just another reason why we Mopar guys like PPG. LOL

I guess I'd best hurry up with this story quick then...

My dad liked watching trains. It was always easy to talk him into sitting by the tracks for awhile when we were running around somewhere. When I was very, very young, a Tyco Reading train set appeared one day. It looked just like the one in this catalog...

http://tycotrain.tripod.com/redboxeracatalogs/id5.html

Ever since, I felt that GP-20 had pretty well matched the colors of the actual engines. It looked real to me then and still does today. I think Tyco had the chips. Somehow, the shell has managed to survive all these years just being stuck in spots. It was even used as a sandbox toy and the green paint has slightly faded to a bluer shade in the sun.

Here's a really, really old pic taken way back last spring shortly after I eBagged another potential sample...


Attachments:
tycordggp20oldlook.jpg
tycordggp20oldlook.jpg [ 101.66 KiB | Viewed 1700 times ]


Last edited by NVPete on Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:28 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 210
Location: Annville, PA
Then, after screwing around on the computer attempting to figure this out for too long, I ended up blowing a few more eBag bucks on a pristine still-in-the-box GP-20 and the DuPont catalog.

The yellow was a bit more difficult to match since it's the molded plastic color and unpainted. Looking across the short hood of the model and onto the 1290 chip results in almost a seamless transition. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to capture the effect on camera so you guys get the "almost" picture for now. LOL

The 046 chip is a dead ringer match for the painted-on green...


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1290almost.jpg
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046chipmatch.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 210
Location: Annville, PA
That's what then confirmed to me at least I was dealing with fleet colors so there you have it. LOL All the others I've picked either by memory, extrapolation, elimination, and/or a combination of all three. Attempted to be as objective and scientific as possible but hey, I don't get paid to be a scientist.

I found the NYCSHS site while looking for an example of the suspect 1973 93-6202 Jewel Green as a Central interior color, denoted as such on Eric's list. The only other color that is close, besides the Southern's 93-5800 and 93-1317, is 93-5316 which is adjacent to it on the opposite side in the 1969 DuPont fleet reference on PaintRef.

When I first saw the brand new Green Machines, I thought they looked just like John Deeres only slightly darker. Like 1317 is the lighter version of 5800, 5316 is the lighter version of 6202.

93-5316 is used on Waterloo Boy stationary engine restos and was also the green color on Consolidated Freight trucks. Obviously too light, that would leave only 93-6202 as the probable color...


Attachments:
wbgreen.jpg
wbgreen.jpg [ 32.11 KiB | Viewed 1693 times ]
cftruck.jpg
cftruck.jpg [ 49.09 KiB | Viewed 1693 times ]


Last edited by NVPete on Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:28 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 844
Location: New Franklin, OH
Don’t put a lot of stock into the old toy train/train set manufacturers matching colors to prototype. If it sorta kinda maybe looked like the real thing with stock paint or plastic colors, they were good to go for mass production. Most better manufacturers nowadays are more diligent in getting it right or at least close to right since most modelers are now more demanding. I’ve worked with some model manufacturers on color as well as supplied production artwork for prototypic lettering accuracy. That wouldn’t have happened in the past. Just sayin’....

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 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:42 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 210
Location: Annville, PA
That original-issue Tyco GP-20 is absolutely the only commercial model of a Reading locomotive I'd ever consider trying this with, Eric, and only because I was able to compare it to the actual prototype paint scheme while it still existed. I can't argue with the results, however. LOL

On the 93-5248 Yellow, I can't seem to find codes that are any yellower but with the advances in synthetic pigmentation occurring at the time, who knows? I did see this 2006 Cobalt thing parked outside my house during the holidays but I only traced the color, which is currently used in fleet applications, back to fairly recent times. You might recognize it as Ohio Turnpike Commission yellow and according to a comparison with my chip book, it would be approximately two shades brighter and more yellow than 5248...


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 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:00 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 210
Location: Annville, PA
Regarding the Tyco Reading GP-20, this is the DRGW F-9 released around the same time with the four-stripe paint job in which the Grande Gold/Duco Orange was used. The plastic is clearly cast in a slightly darker imitation gold-like color which more closely matches 93-5607. Like I said, I think they had the chips...


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 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:54 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 844
Location: New Franklin, OH
That F9 proves my point. The four stripe scheme should be Aspen Gold, not yellow. There’s not much correct about the scheme on that model right down to the number.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:56 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 468
Location: Philadelphia, PA
I'm pretty sure Tyco used what paint was cheap versus what paint was accurate.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:31 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 210
Location: Annville, PA
I guess Aspen and Grande Gold are the same thing, Eric? I thought the Rio Grande used the medium imitation gold like the Reading's at first and then switched later to the darker Duco Orange...

https://www.rgmhs.org/data/reference/paint.html

That's how I downloaded it but turning up the saturation on that pic gets the golden orange tone to come out much better. Compare it to the Sunshine tin on Page 1 now...


Attachments:
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tycodrgwf9sat.jpg [ 41.26 KiB | Viewed 1672 times ]


Last edited by NVPete on Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
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