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 Post subject: Re: Coronavirus: Talk About It Here, Please
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:29 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 1014
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Old Pueblo Trolley in Tucson, Arizona is partially open to the public at this time, as we operate two separate museum facilities in two adjacent cities. The subsidiary Southern Arizona Transportation Museum (located in Tucson, Arizona) is closed pursuant to the Order issued by the Mayor, closing public gathering places including museums.

The Old Pueblo Trolley Transit Museum is located in South Tucson, Arizona which is a separate municipality. The Mayor there has issued an emergency order, requiring public gathering places to implement social distancing policies, but has not ordered any closure orders yet. I’ve been keeping our officers informed about the changes so that we can make the necessary decisions.

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"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."- Conductor Nimrod Bell, 1896


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 Post subject: Re: Coronavirus: Talk About It Here, Please
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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The Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum in North Judson, Indiana will be closed until further notice. The bi-monthly Membership/Business meeting scheduled for this coming Saturday (3/21/20), will not be held.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Coronavirus: Talk About It Here, Please
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9494
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
And now the Big Kahuna of the bunch:

Quote:
All Grand Canyon Railway & Hotel operations are being suspended from Friday, March 20 – Thursday, May 21 due to concerns surrounding COVID-19 (also known as coronavirus). Learn more at https://www.thetrain.com/coronavirus-updates/


It is reported that most employees are furloughed for the duration.


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 Post subject: Re: Coronavirus: Talk About It Here, Please
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9494
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Latest casualty:

San Francisco's MUNI heritage streetcars and cable cars, shut down.


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 Post subject: Re: Coronavirus: Talk About It Here, Please
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:53 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 677
Another:
Quote:
Tweetsie Railroad is postponing its park opening date to adhere to the current recommendations from the CDC and the State of North Carolina. We will continue to monitor the situation with guidance from public health professionals to determine when the park will open.
Link: Tweetsie Railroad - Press Room


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 Post subject: Re: Coronavirus: Talk About It Here, Please
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:17 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 1014
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Governor of California just issued a mandatory order for all Californians to stay home tomorrow. USN is deploying USNS Mercy to Port of Los Angeles now and USNS Comfort will depart Norfolk for New York City as soon as her repair can be completed.

According to the USN, both ships will be used for non-Coronavirus cases as their wards cannot be partitioned effectively. That will permit the land based hospitals to use all beds for Coronavirus cases. Both ships are modified oil tankers that are designed for mass casualty events. Each ship has beds for 1,000 patients, 12 complete operating rooms and the requisite physical plant to provide hospital operations without external support. Each ship also has a USMC aviation unit with two UH-60 Blackhawks.

The activation of the two hospital ships is good news/bad news depending on how you look at the situation.

Here at home, both of Old Pueblo Trolley’s museums are closed through the end of the month. Both the City of Tucson and Pima County are closing all nonessential services and reducing public access to essential service facilities. No county employees are being furloughed as the county is aware of the needs of the employees and their families and needs all employees of closed or reduced staffed departments to be immediately available for reassignment if required.

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"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."- Conductor Nimrod Bell, 1896


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 Post subject: Re: Coronavirus: Talk About It Here, Please
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:06 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 597
The museums and shorter train rides that exist near major population centers (Tennessee Valley, Strasburg, Illinois Railway Museum and many others come to mind) will be able to bounce back a little... locals won’t have the money for big trips but will want to do something. At least I hope.

The more “destination” type places like Durango, Cumbres, etc. with higher ticket prices are going to have things really really hard I’m afraid.

This is going to be a really rough year...


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 Post subject: Re: Coronavirus: Talk About It Here, Please
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:41 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
Posts: 372
Location: Ipswich, UK
From this side of the Atlantic, most, if not all, of the heritage operations seem to have shut down operations through to May, at least, though one or two have kept their non-rail operations (ie Coffee shops) open to a limited extent, to keep some (diminished) revenue coming in.
Our Government has been offering lots of financial support to all and sundry (particularly their supporters...) but, as yet, nothing much to the "heritage" sector, despite the money it generates for the UK economy. I'm not anticipating things getting out of this situation until later in the year, by which time it may be too late for some of them...

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Last edited by 70000 on Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Coronavirus: Talk About It Here, Please
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:05 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1890
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
While this situation is certainly fluid to the max. it would strongly appear that this is going to be FAR longer than a month or two. Senior medical experts are clearly saying that until there is an effective vaccine ( 12-18 months away) we must continue to stay apart or the virus will keep spreading.

I would counsel anyone who asks to prepare a battle plan to be out of business for 18 months and go from there. If we get lucky and things return to normal sooner than that, great.

Plan for the worst....pray for the best.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Coronavirus: Talk About It Here, Please
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:23 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1265
Fascinating to watch all the usual sources of wackiness go wacky, but it's way past time for sensible trust-based action -- before the economy collapses beyond easy recovery. (It may already have done so...)

SARS-CoV-2 (either S or L) is not flu. It is similar to a common-cold virus; it spreads and acts just like a common-cold virus except that its specificity to certain receptors (ACE2 being one) is about 20x "better"; CDC estimates as of about March 9th were that about 98% of Americans would have a bad version of cold-like symptoms -- the misery being extended a couple of weeks due to novel antigens, but still ending without dramatic issues.

Most of the really 'prompt' deaths appear to be induction of cytokine storm via interleukins 6 and 10. One of the worst things it appears you can do is to treat CoVID-19 with typical "flu" immunomodulation treatments -- particularly Tamiflu and prednisone. That will have you in grave trouble pretty fast. Unfortunately before there was widespread or pervasive SARS-CoV-2 testing, this appears to be common procedure in hospitals. My understanding is that we know enough to be able to modulate the effect of cytokine storm if identified 'timely' (probably including prompt reduction of virus titer with 3CLpro inhibition; see below)

As a peripheral note awaiting better statistics: in all the reported outbreaks (possibly including Italy when the statistics are resolved) the prompt death rate appears to drop sharply after the initial spread of an outbreak -- look at the incidence rates week-over-week for the initial Wuhan pandemic. In my opinion (avoiding conspiracy theories) this may partly be due to prompt administration of 3C-like protease inhibitors 'prophylactically' to both geriatric and general population at risk, or admitted with early-detected cases of infection. The Chinese have been in volume production of effective 3CLpro inhibitors (for feline FIP, a rather highly related condition when you examine its etiology) since last February or so.

The second-leading cause of morbidity in "Boomer Remover Syndrome" is induction of viral pneumonia. Do not be fooled by typical 'coinfection' scares. Again as of March 9th, the statistical incidence of coinfection in CoVID-19 cases was a whopping total of FOUR. This might have increased some since then, but probably not too much. The issue with the viral pneumonia, in part, is that increasingly after about age 50/60 (depending on individuals) part of their immune response that targets 'novel' viruses of this type becomes progressively inactivated (hence the massive-synthetic-antibody treatment now being touted) and hence symptoms requiring oxygen-assisted mechanical ventilation may persist for days or weeks. (The bad news that 'nobody talks about' yet is that the antibody-replacement treatment doesn't help this; when the antibodies are normally cleared from the circulation, people will need 'booster injections', as near as I can tell in perpetuity...)

Now, It was pointed out as early as January that the total number of available ventilators in United States hospitals is about 100,000; do the math if we have any prolonged outbreaks (and see below for the bad news there). I am currently looking into repurposing CPAP with oxygen concentration into a 'home treatment' that can be mass-produced and government-subsidized for delivery, with good aftermarket use of the equipment after the pandemic problem is over (again see below). I see no technical or operational reason why this will not be effective in a great many cases where 'social distancing' of the over-60 cohort -- the only real 'social distancing' that is particularly long-term medically necessary -- proves compromised.

As mentioned, the CDC 'primary' spread is just like a common cold, from 6' or less exposure to airborne droplets. I do not agree with their overly-sanguine idea that very little transmission occurs from contact with hard surfaces (on which SARS-CoV-2, the S form at least, happily remains infectious from 18 to 48 hours) -- fortunately, effective sterilization is a 'known' technology here, involving first effective alcohol (or other agent) penetration of the viral envelope and capsid and denaturation of the viral RNA genome, and second effective removal of lipid or other surface contamination in which the lipid envelope of the virus coat can attach and 'shield' itself. That's an alcohol content no higher than about 78%, which is why plain 70% alcohol is better for viral disinfection than 91% or stronger, together with a 'skin-friendly' quaternary-ammonium-chloride (quat) formulation at effective strength (not that much as a fractional percent of composition. Flood this on about 2 minutes 'standing wet' and then wipe with an absorbent clean cloth (turning frequently) - then wash the cloths on as hot a cycle as you can with more quat in the detergent solution. Museums and other facilities can do this often (for example on an extended version of typical 'bathroom disinfection' schedule for public businesses) on commonly-contacted surfaces ... some of which may not be obvious, like glass edges of car door windows, until thought about carefully. At that point PPE, masks (for you, not to spread infection, more than attempting to prevent coughing spread; think about it) and simple impervious gloves followed by effective alcohol flood (probably not 'hand sanitizer' concentration or lotion admixture, and I wouldn't rely on 'sterile' packaging as an infallible proof against infection) are most of what needs to be mindfully observed to keep the spread away...

but here is bad news #1, which doesn't seem to be discussed much: some percentage of people who get over the symptoms of CoVID-19 (which is the disease syndrome, not the virus) will continue to shed the SARS-CoV-2 that gave them the disease -- possibly in very large amounts. I have seen case reports of at least two people analogous to "Typhoid Marys" who showed no symptoms of infection at all, but were shedding enormous amounts on test.

Bad news #2, which is related to this, is that a wide range of researchers are quite certain that exposure to SARS-C0V-2 and subsequent usual induction of CoVID-19 symptoms will be near-universal in non-isolated populations by the end of this year. (Which, please note, is right in the range where "vaccines will finally be available" -- I'd note, sometime after the first week in November but that would be a conspiracy theory of sorts -- and vaccination is unlikely to reduce the shedding problem in a great many instances, as it targets a different area of viral replication.

So, reading between the lines, all that the present means of enforced 'social segregation' (I see now the PC term is going to be 'social distancing') will do is prolong the agony for most Americans. And the dangerous instance rate in those most 'at risk' (logarithmically increasing above about age 60 for documentable reasons alone) will increase, perhaps quietly, right along with the increase in pervasiveness of infection/'recovery'.

In my opinion, what ought to have been done is high concentration of resources and therapies -- and enforced social distancing methodology -- on the greatest at-risk groups (the immunocomprised, the immune-system misprimed, and the elderly, as a start). and use normal self-isolation 'on the honor system' and subsequent disinfection care also on the honor system for the 'recovered' as the means of retarding the prompt spread of outbreaks into Italian-style pandemic going forward.

There are some things in American life that likely won't survive this, free public libraries being one and sit-down dinner restaurants as we now know them quite probably being another. On the other hand, almost all of these are already shut down sine die by knothead overreaction, with more to follow. I already see strict quarantine against even limited travel coming by early next week (the papers have already been issued to many railroaders that they must produce when stopped to prove they are 'essential workers') and that will crash much of what's left of normal economic balance.

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 Post subject: Re: Coronavirus: Talk About It Here, Please
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:54 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3676
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
A perspective on Coronavirus COVID-19 from Jim Wrinn at Trains:

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/staff/archiv ... c.facebook

Quote:
This is usually the time of year when most tourist railroads and museums are holding their collective breaths and hoping to make it financially to the first big event of the spring that will bring in a surge of visitors. For most operations, it’s a long, lean winter between the hustle, fast pace, and big bucks of Polar Express or a locally grown Christmas substitute. Those holiday events usually restock most railroad bank accounts for a time, but there are winter locomotive overhauls to pay for, annual insurance policies to renew, and gift shops to restock. This time of the year, most operations I know are beyond ready for an influx of visitors and cash. Usually, that’s an Easter Bunny Express or something else that’s whimsical and light. This year, there will be no bunny hopping down the tracks to save the tourist railroad and museum industry. The coronavirus that has shut down the country has idled most train rides and historical experiences from one end of the country to the other. Our friends at Grand Canyon Railway, for example, closed March 20 and said they would reopen May 22.

The industry is built on the mobility of Americans and their disposable income to buy tickets, purchase memberships, and splurge in the gift shop. Without those customers, they’re in trouble. Depending on how long the crisis continues and what stimulus packages are enacted by the state and federal governments, some may not make it. This spring will be a significant test for tourist railroads and museums. For the sake of them all, let’s hope it’s a short time until the gates can reopen, the traps on the coaches open, and the crowds can return again to the places we love and enjoy.

A few will come up with clever alternatives. I’ve already seen a virtual tour at some locations with a plea for donations, which is a smart idea. Others that value their skin will get creative. In the days and weeks ahead, I hope to hear more about them.

For now, I hope that everyone will remember something that the late Walter Gray, executive director of the California State Railroad Museum for many years, wrote in Locomotive & Railway Preservation magazine back in the early 1990s. Railway preservation doesn’t heal the sick or feed the poor, but it does a tremendous emotional service for our patrons. Railway preservation evokes smiles, creates lifelong memories, and has the ability to uplift. There is no higher calling. Here’s to the healing of our land and our people and the day when the tourist trains and museums open their doors wide open once again.


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 Post subject: Re: Coronavirus: Talk About It Here, Please
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:33 am
Posts: 76
Zach Lybrand wrote:

On topic, is there anyone here who does NOT work in the healthcare industry but DOES still have to go out and work with the public? I'm a public transit operator, so I can't exactly work from home. Is there anything someone like me can do besides maintaining a distance between me and my passengers and washing my hands frequently? Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful that I'm still able to work on times like this, but man, the tension in the crew room is so thick you can cut it with a knife.


If you have glasses or sunglasses, wear them. It would help prevent you from touching your face or eyes. Glasses or goggles are part of the PPE at the hospital I work at along with a respirator mask when handling sick patients. Masks are in short supply now, but you should be able to get a hold of glasses of some kind easily.

Other than that, yeah just maintain distance and wash your hands. Nothing else you can do other than that.


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 Post subject: Re: Coronavirus: Talk About It Here, Please
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:17 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1030
The next few weeks can be found here: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03 ... ction.html

I'm, sorry, but I am relying on gallows humor to get me through this, I'm not able to bunker myself until it passes.


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 Post subject: Re: Coronavirus: Talk About It Here, Please
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:32 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1265
The problem with the 'no virus' theory is that there are soooooo many independent proofs of how it's sequenced, how it's structured, what it has homology with that's supposed to cause cognate problems (specifically including FIP and efficient treatment therefor), even how the S- and L-strains differ and how the differences interact with specific human [my emphasis] receptors...

I'm not an epidemiologist, or an immunologist, or a virologist either, but I apparently know a hell of a lot more science, in a lot more areas, than the guy on YouTube who appears to be trying, but not succeeding, to be making some argument to authority while saying everyone else's authority is somehow wack. There comes a point, which we essentially passed no more than a few weeks after the Chinese originally sequenced SARS-CoV-2, when there is so much evidence from so many ways of looking at it that no one still adheres to the old pseudoscience paradigms, like 'detoxing' as a word, or dismissing Coley's work as fake science because he couldn't account for what he observed correctly at the time.

Now, saying that the coronavirus is anything remarkably lethal on the order of something like the worst clones of the 1918 influenza virus, or even the 2009 strain(s) of H1N1, is already overexaggerating the thing dramatically for 'all but a few' potentially-affected people. Were we to recognize this and set up our social-distancing programs purely to protect those at risk we'd have a lot less silly crap ... which is at least something I agree with those YouTubers about ... but pretending that this is a sort of microbiological moon hoax is not a way to go about that.

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 Post subject: Re: Coronavirus: Talk About It Here, Please
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:06 pm 
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Every event in my area involving speakers, programs or clinics has been cancelled now.

I suspect some groups may adopt electronic distribution of presentations and programs if the crisis continues for a while. (If there is internet capacity to allow doing so.)

PC

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