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 Post subject: Re: PRR Jacks Narrows Round-End Obs Leaves Altoona For WMSR
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:30 pm 

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 Post subject: Re: PRR Jacks Narrows Round-End Obs Leaves Altoona For WMSR
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:59 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
A new update, via Facebook from "The Pullman Conservatory":

https://www.facebook.com/savingpullmans ... 1694883368

Quote:
The Pullman Conservancy is excited to announce our first endeavor in Pullman car preservation. In coordination with the current owner, we have facilitated the move of PRR observation lounge car “Jacks Narrows” and PRR bar lounge car “Harbor Springs” from the Railroaders Memorial Museum in Altoona, PA to the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad in Cumberland, MD. Western Maryland has agreed to provide a safe home for these unique cars while restoration efforts are undertaken.

Once resplendent in the two-tone “Fleet of Modernism” scheme, the interior designs of both cars personify industrial designer Raymond Loewy’s MAYA, “most advanced, yet acceptable,” design philosophy.

To learn more, “Like” and follow The Pullman Conservancy’s page on Facebook at www.facebook.com/savingpullmans or email The Pullman Conservancy at info@savingpullmans.org


The FB post includes interior photos of the lounges as current.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR Jacks Narrows Round-End Obs Leaves Altoona For WMSR
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:23 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1089
Bet these cars were pulled by a T1 at some point. Just saying.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR Jacks Narrows Round-End Obs Leaves Altoona For WMSR
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:56 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:38 pm
Posts: 299
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
[quote="Alexander D. Mitchell IV"]A new update, via Facebook from "The Pullman Conservatory":

https://www.facebook.com/savingpullmans ... 1694883368

The Pullman Conservancy is excited to announce our first endeavor in Pullman car preservation. In coordination with the current owner, we have facilitated the move of PRR observation lounge car “Jacks Narrows” and PRR bar lounge car “Harbor Springs” from the Railroaders Memorial Museum in Altoona, PA to the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad in Cumberland, MD. Western Maryland has agreed to provide a safe home for these unique cars while restoration efforts are undertaken.


So in other words, WMSR has (partially) nothing to do with the cars, other than to serve as a restoration outfit - and paid at that!
Hope that's the correct take-away in this update.

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 Post subject: Re: PRR Jacks Narrows Round-End Obs Leaves Altoona For WMSR
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:39 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Posts: 247
I think this thread does bring up something that is pretty important to address.

What equipment survives that was from that original 1938 FOM Pullman purchase? I know there’s 1 double set diner in Ohio, the aforementioned Jack Narrows, the car in Cincinnati (8115), and Harbour Springs.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR Jacks Narrows Round-End Obs Leaves Altoona For WMSR
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:40 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 379
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Well, I had put the Wayner's away and had to get it out

PRR 8115 is Metropolitan View, the 1938 Broadway Limited 2 Master Room, 1 Double Bedroom, Buffet-Lounge Observation car, Plan 4080, Lot 6548. It had Pullman 41-HR trucks. It received number 8115 when Pullman sold it to PRR in 1945.

Metropolitan View remained a sleeping car when some pre-war feature cars were redesignated Parlor Cars in 1957.

here are the diagrams:

http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiag ... &sz=sm&fr=

http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiag ... &sz=sm&fr=

Note again Loewy's disdain for windows in the lounge areas.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: PRR Jacks Narrows Round-End Obs Leaves Altoona For WMSR
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 122
Steamguy73 wrote:
I think this thread does bring up something that is pretty important to address.

What equipment survives that was from that original 1938 FOM Pullman purchase? I know there’s 1 double set diner in Ohio, the aforementioned Jack Narrows, the car in Cincinnati (8115), and Harbour Springs.


PRR 8007, the “Philadelphia County.” a 13-bedroom sleeper, was in the collection of the Indiana Transportation Museum since its retirement by the PRR in 1967. The Philadelphia County also had the Pullman Standard 43-R lightweight triple-bolster truck - often nicknamed as "Napoleon Hat" trucks.

Does this car still exist? Did anyone reading this thread have a chance to inspect it in Noblesville?

Another car is the City of Wheeling, discovered in a scrap yard tipped on its side and forgotten.

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34923&hilit=sleeper+scrap+pennsylvania

This car is beyond economical restoration as a complete car. But, if this car still exists, it could be used as the basis for an interpretive exhibit, perhaps as a cutaway, to explain lightweight car construction methods and HVAC technology.

The Illinois Railway Museum has Cascade Knoll, which is very complete and intact from its last PRR service. The PRR's Cascade series wore the Fleet of Modernism paint scheme when delivered but, unlike other cars at the time, had many features that were carried forward in post-war designs.

This RYPN thread has information about other Cascade series sleepers: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38269


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 Post subject: Re: PRR Jacks Narrows Round-End Obs Leaves Altoona For WMSR
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:37 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
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Thomas Cornillie wrote:

PRR 8007, the “Philadelphia County.” a 13-bedroom sleeper, was in the collection of the Indiana Transportation Museum since its retirement by the PRR in 1967... Does this car still exist? Did anyone reading this thread have a chance to inspect it in Noblesville?



It was listed as at risk of scrap at Forrest Park as of October last year:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =858139899

and was among the cars up for auction on Ozark that didn't sell according to NS 3322 in this thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42162&hilit=Indiana+Transportation+Museum&start=405:

"Here is a listing of everything remaining:

Milwaukee Road B Unit #68B- $17,500.00
Milwaukee Road F7A Locomotive #72- $27,500.00
Milwaukee Road FP7A #96C- $37,500.00
Nickel Plate Road Baldwin Switcher #99- $11,000.00
Union Pacific GP9 Locomotive #200- $55,000.00


Jackson Tamper- $3,300.00
Lake Erie & Western Camp Car #X50571- $1,500.00
Louisville & Nashville Box Car 112088- $1,500.00
Milwaukee Road Refrigerator Car #37191- $4,500.00
New York Central Heavyweight Baggage Car- $9,000.00
Pennsylvania Railroad "Philadelphia County"- $9,000.00
Pennsylvania Railroad Box Car #497329- $1,500.00
Pennsylvania Railroad Covered Hopper #257784- $1,500.00
Pennsylvania Railroad Railway Post Office Car #652- $11,000.00
Santa Fe Coach #2400- $6,000.00
Santa Fe Coach #3083- $6,000.00
Swift Premium Refrigerator Car #25011- $1,500.00
Swift Premium Refrigerator Car #25023- $1,500.00
U.S. Navy Box Car #4828- $1,500.00
Wabash Wood Box Car- $1,500.00
Wood Outside Braced Boxcar #2- $1,500.00"


I haven't heard anything about any of the remaining ITM equipment since the Ozark auction ended.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR Jacks Narrows Round-End Obs Leaves Altoona For WMSR
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
Posts: 421
"What equipment survives that was from that original 1938 FOM Pullman purchase? I know there’s 1 double set diner in Ohio, the aforementioned Jack Narrows, the car in Cincinnati (8115), and Harbour Springs."

The twin unit diner set in Ohio was built by Budd in 1949, thus was definitely not part of the "Fleet of Modernism" consists. Unfortunately, they have also been somewhat stripped inside and out.

There are also 3 ex-Army, ex-PRR Cascade 10-5 sleepers in Covington, KY, two of which badly need a savior. Not sure which of the 3 may have been FOM cars.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR Jacks Narrows Round-End Obs Leaves Altoona For WMSR
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:45 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 122
The twin unit diner set in Ohio was built by Budd in 1949, thus was definitely not part of the "Fleet of Modernism" consists. Unfortunately, they have also been somewhat stripped inside and out.

There are 2 D70cR diner cars at the "Unusual Junction" restaurant and shop in Coshocton, OH.

https://theunusualjunction.com/

(Note - other Pullmans are pictured on their home page.

Photos of the D70CRs can be found at

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rskymills/5635182045/in/photostream/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rskymills/5635762648/in/photostream/

via the very useful Railroad Preservation Index: https://sites.google.com/site/railwaypreservationphotoindex/by-railroad/pennsylvania-rr

Here is a builder's photo: https://digital.hagley.org/PRR_11717

I would expect that these cars would be missing most of their interiors. But, they would add another 85' of two-tone tuscan red to a Fleet of Modernism set and provide a useful interpretive space for introducing the context of the other cars.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR Jacks Narrows Round-End Obs Leaves Altoona For WMSR
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:26 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1089
More info from the Indiana Railroads board yesterday, from a former ITM employee: "The "disposition list" of July 13, 2018 says of the Philadelphia County "sold, could be sold again by new owner if 3rd party is interested in car." Thought I read or heard recently that the car had been scrapped. During my time at ITM I only entered the car once as far as the hallway running the length of the car. That much was in pretty good condition but I was told the rooms had been torn apart by raccoons." Still cannot determine if it (or anything else on the list) still exist.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR Jacks Narrows Round-End Obs Leaves Altoona For WMSR
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 9:54 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1089
Thomas Cornillie wrote:
PRR 8007, the “Philadelphia County.” a 13-bedroom sleeper, was in the collection of the Indiana Transportation Museum since its retirement by the PRR in 1967. The Philadelphia County also had the Pullman Standard 43-R lightweight triple-bolster truck - often nicknamed as "Napoleon Hat" trucks.

Does this car still exist? Did anyone reading this thread have a chance to inspect it in Noblesville?


Is this it, behind the F unit, "laker2555" (only know his handle) photo from Forrest Park last weekend (May 9, 2020):


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