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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:02 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:32 pm
Posts: 38
Kelly,

Admirable. I suspect that (from what I am reading on the subject) that the issue is that even the companies that are trying to tool up....are still in that mode...."tooling up". I watch MFG and I am not seeing (maybe my business is in the wrong side of MFG.com) a huge demand for....parts X-Y-Z to finish a project. I suspect that you may be ahead of the curve. Kelly, are you guys signed up in MFG.com? If not, you may start there and put yourselves out as a CNC "fast track" if you think you can be a fast track. I think they have parameters for what you have to have in terms of production ability to be considered "fast track".

Wasatch isn't no "fast track".... (unless you have a interchange freight car, then we have a fast track for that..... :-)

Kindly,

JohnE.

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Wasatch Railroad Contractors
Cheyenne, Wyoming


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:08 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9494
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
It happens that I spoke with a couple small manufacturers in other "specialized" trades (for example, an archery equipment manufacturer), in states that haven't shut down everything region-wide or statewide (YET). All of them are able to practice (for the most part) "personal spacing," and have ordered any employee even related to anyone with even a sore throat or sniffle not to come in.

The message I got from them about potential shutdown seemed like it all came from the same script or radio talk-show host:
"We will close down only when men with guns come to our doors with a written court order. Our employees need the income just in case."

And, yes, at least one of those companies is desperate to turn over whatever production they can to the "greater good," but running into the same logistics and organization problem as Brother Anderson........... someone has to tell them what to make, to what specs, and where to send them.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:07 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:57 am
Posts: 222
Location: Sandpoint, ID
PMC wrote:
mjanssen wrote:
Solving the COVID 19 ventilator problem video:

https://youtu.be/ntFQay9cy8Y

Be very skeptical of anyone who says "the problem is just regulation". Regulation = confirmation. We generally depend on government to regulate, i.e. confirm, that devices, medicines etc that could cause serious illness or death but where the differences cannot be seen by the end customers' eye are produced competently. In the field this board covers, for example, steam locomotive frames are not really regulated, but steam locomotive boilers are heavily regulated. Or on track, ballast is not really regulated, but rail is. Regulation is a solution to the tendency of those who would be paying for doing it right to cut corners to save money, or to use deceptive advertising to sell things that could cause illness or death. As this video notes, there is a fine line between properly inflating a sick lung and damaging it, and we don't want someone's brother in law Clyde building a ventilator using kitchen implements and then damaging someone's lungs.


Actually it is a commercial product trademarked by Percussionaie that has been around since the 1970's. What the guy is showing is that a Phasitron, the mass-produced semi-disposable (6 months service) plastic part which precisely provides lung expansion, secretion clearance, and oxygen can be operated by much less sophisticated means than the IPV-1C Flow Ventilator. It can basically be a field-assembled parts list. Is that ideal? - NO, does it achieve the objective in a crisis - YES. Leaders in innovation, war, and other types of crises always push boundaries. You cannot succeed or fail more than the common man without increased risk. Regulation comes from quantifying what worked after people's failures. Many succeeded and there was no subsequent regulation; many failed and there came to be regulation. How do you imagine someone initially figured out a steam locomotive would run better with more boiler pressure- and how much pressure for a given design was too much? If no one had risked, we might still be pulling trains with horses.

Dr. Bird invented the HFP Ventilator in the 1940's (which was used for high altitude flight by the military, freed people of iron lungs, and saved lives of countless people) and sold his company "Bird" to 3M in 1978 and then started Percussionaire with the Phasitron invention at its core in 1983.

http://percussionaire.com/products/ipv-1c


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:37 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:57 am
Posts: 222
Location: Sandpoint, ID
Ventec and General Motors (GM)
Partnership to accelerate ventilator manufacturing

Ventec's ventilator has a battery and onboard compressor

Join the Team!
Apply for a position in the Kokomo, Indiana plant to work with Ventec and General Motors to address the COVID-19 pandemic.

Apply today: Kokomo, Indiana • Bothell, Washington

https://www.venteclife.com/page/covid19-coronavirus-ventec-life-systems-stands-ready-to-help-with-vocsn


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:41 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1265
Kelly, Matt et al.

I do not see you registered in the MIT e-Vent development effort yet, and I wish you would be.

I have not seen this mentioned yet here; it's a reasonable guide to what is required of a first-generation response device. Note in particular what is involved in developing, and enhancing, a bilevel CPAP device to function effectively as a respirator in the necessary clinical context of ARDS.

https://www.aarc.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/guidance-document-SARS-COVID19.pdf

Compare this carefully with the provisions of the current Food and Drug enforcement policy for ventilators, accessories and other respiratory devices at

https://e-vent.mit.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Ventilators-Enforcement-Guidance.pdf (I provide the MIT URL as I suspect it will be carefully and timely updated as things change)

A great early place for Kelly to address, as it has specific meaning for a range of railroaders, is a correct design of vent filter for the 'exhaust bypass' of a bilevel CPAP device that traps and passivates any exhaled virus and liquids, while allowing relatively low back-pressure against expulsion (which can be damaging to lungs severely affected by ARDS). This involves media that can absorb a large collective volume of moisture and effectively bind any suspended particulates, even small ones, after absorption, without significantly impairing expulsive flow (and providing an assured mechanical seal to prevent even small leaks even after repeated blows or shocks to the device on which the valve is applied). It should be easy to apply and then service, in the field, possibly by non-medically-trained people, and one basic design of 'filter' should be easily and unconfusingly adaptable to however many different configurations of ventilators needing exhaust valve filtration -- as well as a wide selection of N95 masks that up to now are woefully incompetent in this critical respect -- as possible.

I also think, in the intermediate term, nonpowered source of compressed oxygen-enriched air and control gas needs to be provided, in a way that can be independent of electrical supply even from battery or renewable sources. That will need to develop adequate volume at a pressure sufficient to optimize molecular-sieve concentration (with the bypass nitrogen retained for control or energy recovery) and this will involve an adjustable lightweight 'bicycle' frame and shiftable gearing to power an appropriate combined compressor and variable-excitation (and possibly switched-reluctance) generator. Even short-term adaptation of things like spinning-bike frames might help in a crisis, and the 'adaptive reuse' of much of the devices is fairly easy to predict.

Is this component something anyone has interest in producing?

https://www.isinnova.it/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/varianti.jpg

This is a key adaptive valve that suits a noninvasive full-face mask to work as an 'unregulated' assistive ventilation device, in Italy. The developers are patenting it but say they will keep rights to the design fully open. There are some key drawbacks in potential utility for patients with ARDS, but they mostly relate to the Decathlon mask (which was a snorkeling mask being quickly and inexpensively repurposed) and changes there would be advantageous if inexpensive and easily implemented.

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R.M.Ellsworth


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:57 am
Posts: 222
Location: Sandpoint, ID
Kelly,

I think this design is right up your alley!

https://virginorbit.com/virgin-orbit-uci-and-ut-austin-design-new-mass-producible-ventilator-for-covid-19-patients/


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