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 Post subject: Re: HeritageRail Alliance recommends reopening practices
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 2:19 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 778
The owner of a ticketing company isn’t where anyone should be getting advice from. We need lawyers, risk management, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: HeritageRail Alliance recommends reopening practices
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 4:20 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
I think advice on ways to set up contactless ticketing from somebody in that specialized bit of the business is information that some of us might find well worth knowing.

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 Post subject: Re: HeritageRail Alliance recommends reopening practices
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 4:31 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
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Dave wrote:
I think advice on ways to set up contactless ticketing from somebody in that specialized bit of the business is information that some of us might find well worth knowing.


Absolutely. Any ticket provider should be able to provide you with information on how to do that. Is that an issue for organizations?


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 Post subject: Re: HeritageRail Alliance recommends reopening practices
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 4:52 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
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Location: New Franklin, OH
Dave wrote:
I think advice on ways to set up contactless ticketing from somebody in that specialized bit of the business is information that some of us might find well worth knowing.

We used WhistleTix when we ran our excursions. What I liked about them was the ability to have seating diagrams for each car and the patron could pick their own seats from any open seats available. It worked well for us. That was more than five years ago so I couldn’t tell you if others are doing the same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: HeritageRail Alliance recommends reopening practices
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 5:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 778
Having used them both in ticket sales, I would highly recommend whistletix over DTS.

If you have never done online ticketing, look into eventbrite and wellattended. While not created for tourist railroads, they both offer custom seating maps.


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 Post subject: Re: HeritageRail Alliance recommends reopening practices
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 5:13 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:06 pm
Posts: 17
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
The owner of a ticketing company isn’t where anyone should be getting advice from. We need lawyers, risk management, etc.


I watched a recording of their most recent webinar which is available on their website talking about new dinner train best practices. I didn't see them giving advice on anything. The representatives from various railroads did most of the talking and idea sharing. The ticketing company is basically just hosting these virtual meetings from what I could tell.


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 Post subject: Re: HeritageRail Alliance recommends reopening practices
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:40 am 

Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:58 pm
Posts: 23
Yes, we are providing the technical hosting portion of webinar and planning guests, along with the help from our partner Josh Miller of NSSR. Our goal is to bring together leaders in tourist railroad industry to discuss issues related to re-opening. We do not claim to have all the answers but because we are all in this together we feel it is important to connect. A future webinar in the next few weeks will focus on legal and insurance implications. Thanks for tuning in!


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 Post subject: Re: HeritageRail Alliance recommends reopening practices
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:55 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2687
The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth?

Yesterday, I realized that the COVID thing may hit different operations differently.

Consider the recent newspaper article from the D&SNG saying that they need to run trains at 75% of capacity in order to break even.

So they're being told they have to run at 50% of load, or 33% or whatever. They either double ticket prices, a rather tough sell right now, or lose money. If they double prices, they still run a strong risk of losing money.

Meanwhile, consider the (mythical) Fiddletown and West Whimberly. A branchline, run by volunteers, with a few coaches and an SW-something or other.

"OK, you can re-open but you can only run your coaches at 50% of capacity. No more than half the seats full!"

"Fill half the seats? Hell, we haven't done that since the year we opened in 1982..."


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 Post subject: Re: HeritageRail Alliance recommends reopening practices
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 5:01 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 1148
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Kelly Anderson wrote:
Mount Royal wrote:
“The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself.”- FDR
...and spending fifty days in the hospital.

Or dying...or getting sick and transmitting it to others in your family.

That said, I see this as remaining a major issue until we have a vaccine. The "at risk" population is much larger than many of us realize.

There is not going to be any blanket recommendation that will cover every organization's situation. The goal for many will be survival through these uncertain times. If an organization thinks that they can make a go of an abbreviated season while observing all applicable health guidelines/regulations, okay. The point is not to lose any more money than necessary. It may be better for many of us to not open-keep expenditures down and hope that next year is better.

As the fiduciary agent (read risk manager) for my organization, I am very hesitant to advocate creating unnecessary exposure to risk. Let's say a museum does decide to resume operations with precautions that are in line with their local health department guidance. A family decides to take a ride and despite the precautions in place, a representative of the museum fails to detect a passenger who had the virus. One of the adults in the family contracts the virus and becomes very ill or dies. The family consults an attorney and decides to sue the museum.

At the minimum, the museum will incur legal costs including attorney's fees and court costs. That's even if the museum's attorney manages to get the case dismissed. In the majority of civil cases, it is customary for each party to pay their own costs as part of the dismissal order. If a judgment is awarded against the museum, they may be required to pay damages (such as lost earnings) and the costs of the opposing party.

As a property owner and business owner, your organization does have control over who is given access to your premises. You do have certain legal duties to your employees, volunteers and invitees (the public). If an invitee is injured on your property, you can be found liable. Do not rush your decision on whether or not to reopen.

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 Post subject: Re: HeritageRail Alliance recommends reopening practices
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 8:01 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 452
Location: Danbury, CT
How about a waiver of liability?

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 Post subject: Re: HeritageRail Alliance recommends reopening practices
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 8:38 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 880
Location: New Franklin, OH
Mount Royal wrote:
How about a waiver of liability?

You’d like to think that would work but ink, paper and signatures don’t necessarily stop all lawsuits. They only help minimize the risk.

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Orrville Railroad Heritage Society
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 Post subject: Re: HeritageRail Alliance recommends reopening practices
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 12:04 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 736
Mount Royal wrote:
How about a waiver of liability?

How would that help your employees and volunteers?

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 Post subject: Re: HeritageRail Alliance recommends reopening practices
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 12:43 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:38 pm
Posts: 41
PMC wrote:
choodude wrote:

How did the residents of London, England survive World War 2?

I see this attitude on social media a lot about the restrictions of social distancing, staying at home and wearing masks being tyranny.

Perhaps I can ask my older brother, who's friends were drafted and died in the Vietnam War, if they would rather have been ordered to stay home and wear a mask?

Anyway, I've seen the results of polls that show well over 85% support for these restrictions. Anyone familiar with political polling will understand those numbers are well beyond "landslide" status. For me the bad publicity is an example of Tyranny of the Minority.

The bottom line is how do we reopen our museums and gain the trust of the general public.

Brian

I'm inclined to agree. There is an article in the Washington Post by (conservative) writer Max Boot today who said that if FDR and the others leading our WWII effort had the same attitude as today, complaining that rationing and curfews are unpopular, declaring victory and quitting early etc., "this article would be written in German."

Better six feet apart than six feet under.


I hate when people write things like “we would be speaking german or Japanese”. Obviously the writer of that article doesn't know much about history as the Japanese considered a invasion of CONUS a ludicrous project as did the germans. The germans couldn't get enough barges together and lacked the industrial capacity to build landing craft to cross the english channel at a time when we were well on our way to our industrial buildup and we are to genuinely expect that they could build a navy large enough to protect an invasion fleet (that they didn't possess) and a convoy network across the entire Atlantic ocean without a single working aircraft carrier? Where is the german equivalent to the liberty ship? Im sorry but Max Boot needs to stick to what he knows which is certainly not military history. The last thing we need right now is hyperbole from talking heads when only rational discussion and facts will do


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 Post subject: Re: HeritageRail Alliance recommends reopening practices
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 1:43 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 1148
Location: Tucson, Arizona
jayrod wrote:
Mount Royal wrote:
How about a waiver of liability?

You’d like to think that would work but ink, paper and signatures don’t necessarily stop all lawsuits. They only help minimize the risk.


True. If a party thinks they were infected or injured on your property and retains an attorney, the attorney has the duty to sue you. Even if they don't win the lawsuit, you're still going to incur legal expenses and most likely will not get compensated for your expense in responding to the lawsuit.

Any organization who intends to reopen should consult their insurance agent to determine if their policy will cover potential risk created by the COVID-19 pandemic. Do not assume that your insurance policy will protect you-many commercial general liability policies specifically exempt infectious diseases from coverage. You also have to consider your organization's duties under employer labor law. There are already some high profile labor law cases going on regarding wrongful death from COVID. For determining risk exposure, this is where you should consult your insurance agent (and possibly your attorney-you do have one, right?).

As for maximum numbers of customers permitted, 50% may not be low enough to encourage social distancing in some cases. Walmart just announced that they are limiting the maximum number of customers in their stores to 25% capacity to encourage social distancing. That announcement was made as they are now litigating at least one employee wrongful death lawsuit.

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 Post subject: Re: HeritageRail Alliance recommends reopening practices
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 3:39 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 452
Location: Danbury, CT
Chris Webster wrote:
Mount Royal wrote:
How about a waiver of liability?

How would that help your employees and volunteers?


Both good questions. Answers?

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