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 Post subject: Re: Don't Hijack Preservation with Politics
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9771
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
PaulWWoodring wrote:
While I'm sure the campaigns paid for them, the Reagan and George W. Bush campaign specials were operated by CSX, with CSX equipment when they didn't have to, which is at least a tacit endorsement of the candidates.


Can you imagine the bad P.R. the campaigns could have given a railroad by publicizing the refusal of a corporation to operate a campaign train for a particular candidate, assuming all costs were being paid? That would most likely FAR outstrip any presumed PR--positive OR negative--that CSX derived from operating the train.

The protesters you see on TV news have no money to actually make decisions affecting a railroad. Real corporate types do--and I had orders from certain clients not to patronize certain businesses as long as I was on their timeclocks or expense accounts.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Hijack Preservation with Politics
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:38 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 738
xboxtravis7992 wrote:
During the trip... the locomotive received some noticeably... partisan political banners on it (Jeremy Anderson photos).
This type of mistake can kill your organization.

The Iowa Railroad Historical Society is a 501(c)(3) corporation according to its 2018 Form 990 (available on guidestar.)

Section 501(c)(3) organizations are prohibited from supporting political candidates, as a result of the Johnson Amendment enacted in 1954 (wikipedia). An organization that loses its 501(c)(3) status due to being engaged in political activities cannot subsequently qualify for 501(c)(3) status.

Additional information about the ban on political campaign activity by charities is posted on the IRS website: Charities, Churches and Politics


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Hijack Preservation with Politics
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9771
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Chris Webster wrote:
xboxtravis7992 wrote:
During the trip... the locomotive received some noticeably... partisan political banners on it (Jeremy Anderson photos).
This type of mistake can kill your organization.


We repeat for those that didn't read:

The banners in question were hung by the truckers without authorization or permission, according to several accounts.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Hijack Preservation with Politics
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:41 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1371
Location: Back in NE Ohio
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
PaulWWoodring wrote:
While I'm sure the campaigns paid for them, the Reagan and George W. Bush campaign specials were operated by CSX, with CSX equipment when they didn't have to, which is at least a tacit endorsement of the candidates.


Can you imagine the bad P.R. the campaigns could have given a railroad by publicizing the refusal of a corporation to operate a campaign train for a particular candidate, assuming all costs were being paid? That would most likely FAR outstrip any presumed PR--positive OR negative--that CSX derived from operating the train.

The protesters you see on TV news have no money to actually make decisions affecting a railroad. Real corporate types do--and I had orders from certain clients not to patronize certain businesses as long as I was on their timeclocks or expense accounts.


Except that I had an experience as an engineer trainee in 2000 that gave me an insight as to how corporate political influence works (and remember, my BA is in this). The engineer I was training with was called to run an FRA inspection train from Crystal City (RO on the RF&P) to Richmond, VA. It ended up that the FRA car didn't have cab signals for the RF&P, so one of the CSX GP40-2s with the right cab signals had to lead. In addition, the senior division Road Foreman was along with several officials from Jacksonville. Myself and the conductor ended up riding the inspection car and the RFE ran the train with my engineer along for the ride on the head end. This was during the month where the election results in Florida were being contested. The conversation among the officials in the inspection car was along the lines of, "Don't worry, the fix is in, George is going to be President". These were people who knew what was really going on, and participated in making it happen. If you think we, the average voters, run our politics I've got an overseas railroad I want to sell you.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Hijack Preservation with Politics
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:08 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:21 am
Posts: 58
Dear Mr. Mitchell,

So glad that my previous post earns the honor of
pegging your "Irony Meter" and even illuminating
its "extraordinary" alarm light.

Irony was my goal for posting that.

It seems that my post made its point quite well

As for the pics of the engine in question, I think
it looks kinda nice thatta way.....

After all, it is in keeping with a long standing tradition
of dressing up steamers with red-white-and-blue bunting
for special occasions.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Hijack Preservation with Politics
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9771
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
PaulWWoodring wrote:
These were people who knew what was really going on, and participated in making it happen.


Citation?

Oh, I suppose maybe an "I Voted" sticker means they "participated"..............


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Hijack Preservation with Politics
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:34 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:58 am
Posts: 97
Chuck Richards wrote:
Dear Mr. Mitchell,

So glad that my previous post earns the honor of
pegging your "Irony Meter" and even illuminating
its "extraordinary" alarm light.

Irony was my goal for posting that.

It seems that my post made its point quite well

As for the pics of the engine in question, I think
it looks kinda nice thatta way.....

After all, it is in keeping with a long standing tradition
of dressing up steamers with red-white-and-blue bunting
for special occasions.


The problem with your "Irony" is that your apparent belief that:

"And if it had been a BLM poster, nobody would have
bothered it. They would have just left it there and nobody
would have said anything."

is absolutely, utterly untrue.

Once again the United States of America is being divided and conquered. We did get Trillions of dollars in tax cuts for the wealthiest folks who have ever walked the planet earth while folks have been distracted by such staged media events.

We Are Germany in the 1930's

Brian


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Hijack Preservation with Politics
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:15 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2689
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Chris Webster wrote:
xboxtravis7992 wrote:
During the trip... the locomotive received some noticeably... partisan political banners on it (Jeremy Anderson photos).
This type of mistake can kill your organization.


We repeat for those that didn't read:

The banners in question were hung by the truckers without authorization or permission, according to several accounts.


So why are those photos the ones that are being distributed? Who made that choice and why?

As others have mentioned, some political items are unavoidable. Funding, grants, regulations. Others are part and parcel of railroad history.

But endorsing any candidate, no matter who it is, is a good way to alienate roughly 1/2 of your potential donor / volunteer / customer base. Even if they didn't authorize it, I would think they'd either request the removal of those photos, or at the very least, issue a press release stating it was done without authorization and they do not endorse any particular candidate as an organization.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Hijack Preservation with Politics
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:35 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 888
Location: New Franklin, OH
If the banners were plastered by an outsider/contractor on a piece of equipment being moved for the organization I’m affiliated with, I’d push very hard for a press release by the organization and a formal written apology from the individual/contractor for possibly putting our exempt status in jeopardy. Your exempt status is not a trivial thing and has nothing to do with politics.

_________________
Eric Schlentner
Orrville Railroad Heritage Society
Car Knocker, Gandy Dancer & Hog Jockey
https://orrvillerailroad.com


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Hijack Preservation with Politics
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:40 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 783
It’s silly to think that nobody from the museum, and I mean official people, were not present when the train was being picked up and loaded onto the truck.

Indeed I would question if their non-profit status should be revoked depending on who from the organization was present.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Hijack Preservation with Politics
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:53 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5872
Location: southeastern USA
This is getting us nowhere. I have no reason to disbelieve their report about a rabid outlaw trucker, but should their nonprofit status be challenged what resources will they have to spend to prove they are not lying? Only the lawyers will win no matter who prevails.

I agree they should have been more actively involved - I've seen damage done by ignorant riggers and truckers who didn't know they were ignorant too many times, although in this case their political choice should be more than adequate proof........ except to themselves, as always.

_________________
Santayana: "He who does not remember the past is condemned to repeat it."
Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Hijack Preservation with Politics
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:21 am
Posts: 58
Had it been a BLM banner, nobody would ever have
questioned anything about it. The not for profit status
being in potential jeopardy would never have even gotten
mentioned.

It would be perfectly fine to hijack the engine being moved
with one sort of politics, but some other sort causes
a big too-doo.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Hijack Preservation with Politics
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 458
Location: Pure Michigan
Will a moderator please lock this thread? The original discussion point has gone out the window and this thread itself is now ironically hijacking preservation with politics.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Hijack Preservation with Politics
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9771
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
choodude wrote:
Once again the United States of America is being divided and conquered. We did get Trillions of dollars in tax cuts for the wealthiest folks who have ever walked the planet earth while folks have been distracted by such staged media events.

We Are Germany in the 1930's

Brian


No.

The irony is that you persist in pushing political rhetoric on this board, a place many of go to GET THE H*** AWAY from this very blather you persist in posting, in a thread that started to strongly suggest that we DON'T push politics in preservation.


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 Post subject: Re: Don't Hijack Preservation with Politics
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:42 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9771
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
I have LONG endorsed stringent supervision of the movement of rolling stock, be it by road or by rail. No matter how short the distance or how secure the loading on a flatcar, for every imaginable sort of reason. I've personally watched yard personnel come within five feet of pulling the pin to hump a passenger car plainly placarded "DO NOT HUMP." I've stopped a movement to personally measure an overpass clearance after a new paving job. And I'm sitting by right now for a final decision on a potential load-out that may have to happen between 1 and 5 AM. And I got called in to escort several pieces of rolling stock on the latter half of their trip, only to find that graffiti vandals had covered one side of all five cars before I got to them.

If you aren't in a capacity to supervise the loading, transport, and unloading--especially just across town, not halfway across the continent--you're a fool or sucker.
And if some representative of the group said okay to it, that someone needs to be reprimanded or "re-educated."


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