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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:46 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
I was lookin for Diesel-Electric power plants - the ones that produced electricity for electric networks. And found out about the "Fairbanks-Morse" company. Never though that was another company in U.S.A. that made Diesel enegines and Diesel locomotives, besides the well known ones (includig "Balwdin" and "Cartepillar").
And never thought that 2 stroke Diesel enegines where used on locomotives in the '30's. Thought they where post 1940. 57 hours... I wonder if you can get in 60-62 hours today from California to New York City: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSPJiVuygXc

Curiosities:
1) Did passanger cars that had brakes on the end to command the train where common or uncomon. Some Europeanen trains do permit push-pull, in Romania when moving a train from the yard to the station or vice versa they still use the old methodes with flags (during daytime) or flashlight (during nightime);
2) There are any railway automobiles (automobiles modified to move on tracks) left in use?;
3) When was the last time that artificial ice was used to cool freight cars?;
4) Why passager cars didn't had dual mode heating, steam or electric, depending on the type of locomotive used. We had such in Europe.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:31 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:24 pm
Posts: 113
There are some railroad automobile, in museums for example the Baltimore and Ohio railroad museum preserved a track inspection car conversion if I believe a Buick used in the Maryland and Pennsylvania railroad.


In active maintenance service are thousands of hyrail trucks with auxiliary rail wheels that raise and lower between on track or off track usage


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:13 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1403
Location: Philadelphia, PA
The Winton 201 engine was a pioneering diesel. In addition to being a two-stroke cycle, it had uniflow scavenging. This continued through the EMD 710 model. The first 201A in rail equipment was in Burlington's Pioneer Zephyr in 1934.

The F-M engine is a two-stroke opposed piston engine with two crankshafts and two pistons in each cylinder. It is based on the 1930's Junkers Jumo 204 and 205 aircraft diesel engines. The USN installed F-M OP's in many of its diesel submarines and submariners have told me the F-M's were the best submarine diesels. They are still in production.

Passenger cars did have rear brake stands. Some observation cars had back-up valves the Conductor could use to stop a backing train. Passenger trains that were expected to back while occupied had a back-up hose which CSX defines as "A portable hose and valve assembly provided for the purpose of applying brakes from the leading end of a car when it is necessary to push or back trains or cars. The device is connected to the brake pipe hose."

What is "artificial ice?" As far as I know ice refrigerator cars and earlier air-conditioned passenger cars used real ice (frozen water) as a coolant.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 2332
Location: The Atlantic Coast Line
Quote:
There are some railroad automobile, in museums for example the Baltimore and Ohio railroad museum preserved a track inspection car conversion if I believe a Buick used in the Maryland and Pennsylvania railroad.


http://www.borail.org/Ma--Pa-No101.aspx


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:05 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1403
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Here's Nevada Northern's 1956 Pontiac Hy-Rail vehicle.

The site explains how the Hy-Rail gear works, and you can ride it!

https://nnry.com/pages/Hy-Rail.php

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:43 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1403
Location: Philadelphia, PA
The Pontiac is over 50 years old but modern hy-rail (or hi-rail) trucks are similar.

Currently, the small ones are at least 3/4 ton pickups with utility boxes to do maintenance on the railroad. They get a lot bigger from there. Hirail trucks don't require a train crew and can get on and off the RR quickly.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:39 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
Sorry about the ice. I meant to say ice blocks. They could be made from harvested ice too.
So you could manouver passanger trains without man signaling with flags/flash lights.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:35 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
EJ Berry wrote:

Passenger cars did have rear brake stands. Some observation cars had back-up valves the Conductor could use to stop a backing train. Passenger trains that were expected to back while occupied had a back-up hose which CSX defines as "A portable hose and valve assembly provided for the purpose of applying brakes from the leading end of a car when it is necessary to push or back trains or cars. The device is connected to the brake pipe hose."
Phil Mulligan


I wouldn't say passenger cars had brake stands; unless they were MU cars with two pipe brake systems, they couldn't be full function. The typical installation at the rear end was nothing more than a "dump Valve", same as freight cabooses had; a valve that vented the brake pipe to atmosphere and initiated an emergency application. Since passenger trains were normally much shorter than freight trains, it was possible with skill to open the valve just enough to balance the air the locomotive was feeding and do a decent service application, but not easy. Keep in mind that since the advent of air brakes passenger trains have also had an air communication line that blew a whistle in the cab, so even in pre radio days the man on the tail end could communicate directly with the engineer, so the tail end brake valve was normally a last resort.

Tail cars without rear platforms normally had both the communication signal valve and brake valve installed somewhere where the trainman had a view of the track when backing; on the Nebraska Zephyr train at IRM they are built into a little cabinet under the center window in the end. Trains without a dedicated tail car had a "tail hose" instaled from the brake hose and hung on the platform gate. There would have been a communicating valve in the vestibule.

Here is a photo of a tail hose in use on Amtrak:
Image

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:19 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:53 pm
Posts: 202
djl wrote:
Curiosities:

3) When was the last time that artificial ice was used to cool freight cars?;



According to The Great Yellow Fleet; A History of American Railroad Refrigerator Cars John H. White, Golden West Books, all Pacific Fruit Express ice cars were gone by 1972, and the ice plant at Roseville, Ca. was closed. Two years later, all ice plants along the Southern Pacific and Union Pacific were torn down.

Once SP and UP closed down icing, and PFE retired its ice cars, it's unlikely there was much ice refrigerator usage remaining in the U.S.


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:19 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1731
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
EJ Berry wrote:
What is "artificial ice?" As far as I know ice refrigerator cars and earlier air-conditioned passenger cars used real ice (frozen water) as a coolant.
Phil Mulligan
Artificial or manufactured ice is man made frozen water, and not the natural kind that is cut from an outdoor frozen lake and stored in an Ice House until needed in warmer weather.


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
I wonder if steam generated by purposely burning fuel in a boiler is artificial steam as opposed to that which comes out of hot springs, geysers, etc?

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:39 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
The guy speaking on the telephone at 2:40: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWxxSpwuJhM
is usign the radiotelephone service, no?
What "Pennsy" film is that, 'cause I din't found it on YouTube.
On another film I've seen that the counductor pulled a rope to signal to the engenieer that he may start the departing procedure.

Here is intresting: https://www.railwaywondersoftheworld.co ... roads.html

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:51 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1403
Location: Philadelphia, PA
The video with the passenger on the phone is a music video but the scene is from a PRR film. I don't know which one.

The rope to signal the engineer connected with a bell in the cab in the 19th Century. The technology changed to a second air line on passenger cars to carry signals from the train to the engine. The signal line was smaller than the train air brake line and away from the coupler so you shouldn't connect the wrong lines together.

The rope opened a valve that sent an air signal to a high-pitched whistle in the cab. There is a code for the signals; for example two beeps while stopped means start.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:18 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
I do have another curiosity: could "Baldwin" centipedes be made more relaible if the original interest for them was kept alive and more would have had been produced.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:07 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2533
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Probably not. The concept of one huge locomotive was not the best way to take advantage of diesel locomotive flexibility. Far more practical to put individual smaller locomotive units together in two-three-four or more units, for trains requiring more power. Then the individual locomotive units could be separated as needed for smaller jobs.

Baldwin diesel locomotives did not have a high level of quality control in their design and manufacture. The Centipedes (like most of the early Baldwin diesels) were apparently slightly different even in the same order of "identical" locomotives, in electrical and piping layouts-- not a recipe for success with railroad maintenance and operating departments.

Howard P.

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