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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:50 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 74
I've seen the "Flight of century" promo film. But still I can't get to many images and I'm not sure that the train looked that way before the '30's.
Pitty that no "N.Y.C.R.R." Hudson locomotive was preserved.
Intresting thing about the baggage car. On another forum somebody sayed the same thing about baggage car (I suggested that C.F.R. - Romanian Iron Railways should have baggage cars again) - they slow the trains. Intresting because I thought it was for passangers, but it was for the company.
Having your luggage taken separetly and driven to you destination by the rail company (and the picking it up from home, there wasn't even stricly necesarly to get it to the station), anothe thing that look so incredible today. Memories of lost civilization.
Oh, and page dedicated to "Daylight" ("Southern Pacific" train) I've seen baggage car that had elevators for lifting the luggage.

Seems "Pullman" was using open section to get more money. In Europe, as far as I know, all sleeping cars had rooms. Well, I'm not 100% procent sure, because I didn't took many looks on prewar cars. Sleeping cars where expensive so we camed with couchette cars (4 or 6 beds per/room, in stad of 2 or 3 as for sleeping cars).
S.N.C.F. (French Iron Railways National Company) used the American single room accomodation in which some of the rooms had stairs, because they wheren't at floor level. Some of those sleeping cars had stainless steel body (the French and the Portugese where the only ones in Europe to have such cars, apart from the Spanish who imported a train set from U.S.A.).
French stainless steel sleeping cars: http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/fr/car ... P/pix.html
WL = Wagon Lits.
And non-sleeping: http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/fr/car ... x/pix.html
acier inoxidable? = stainless steel. Or simpy inox (term used in Romanian too).

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Last edited by djl on Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:12 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
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Location: Back in NE Ohio
Interesting. A European version of a U. S. Budd Company "Slumbercoach". Look up that category on-line. A very limited production run of only about 23 cars for about four different railroads in the 1950s. Same idea, save space by staggering sleeping accommodations up and down for the single bed compartments.


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 74
I think 2 from another model, the T2: https://www.wagons-lits-diffusion.com/e ... -9860.html
end up in Romania. Unfourtenley they wheren't able to get an autorizathion for run them (it was an private company, not the C.F.R. who tried to run them) so they where scraped... it would be intresting to have them. To be honest, I would have had been curios just to get in one.

Did there was ever F.M. radio on parlor cars or F.M. becomed extended to late for railroads to install F.M. radio recerivers? I'm meaning F.M. for commercial stations reving, not for communications.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:14 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
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Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
FM radio stations don't transmit over a wide area, so just like in an automobile, you quickly travel out of its reception area. That's why a train would tune to a high powered (big city) AM station.


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:34 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
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Location: Back in NE Ohio
JimBoylan wrote:
FM radio stations don't transmit over a wide area, so just like in an automobile, you quickly travel out of its reception area. That's why a train would tune to a high powered (big city) AM station.


Not only that, but FM didn't really become a major force in U. S. broadcasting until the late 1960s, early '70s, when Class I's were abandoning their passenger service and Amtrak was taking over. When I was in grade school in that era, cars that came with radios (and that was by no means a standard item then), were just about all AM only, except maybe for some higher-end models, and the 50,000 watt AM "clear channel" stations were the height of the technology. Adding a FM/tape deck to your car was an event, and I'm talking 8-track.


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:47 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
The Slumbercoach (Sleepercoach on NYC) had duplexed single rooms with two steps up to the upper. They were arranged so in the single rooms, while in bed, the feet of the passenger in the upper room were in a tube over the head of the passenger in the lower room. Alternately, the feet of the passenger in the lower room were in a tube under the head of the the passenger in the upper room. By this means, A Slumbercoach could accommodate an astonishing 40 passengers in 24 single and 8 double private rooms. By contrast, a 10 Roomette, 6 Double Bedroom Pullman could accommodate 22 total.

The roads made more money selling out a Slumbercoach at the coach fare than a Pullman at the Pullman fare.

Roads using Slumbercoaches operated by Pullman included CB&Q (4 cars), B&O (5), MP (1), NP (4 originally, later 12), and NYC (4) ran the same cars as Sleepercoaches with NYC personnel. NYC had Budd convert 10 22 Roomette cars into Sleepercoaches with 16 single rooms and 10 double rooms.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:42 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 74
In some areas, F.M. radio was expanding in the early-mid '60's. But problably there where just few areas. Germany (both of them) had the most expanding F.M. network.
Well, if the vehicle is downhill and the radio emiter on a hill, probably the area of good F.M. reciving is larger.

Slumbercoaches where probably popular because with all not beeing as confortable as a "Pullman", they ofered privacy at a lower cost, and when the prices are lower, people will be atracted.
Talking about some U.S.A. influence, if you take a look here: http://www.svenskmjwiki.se/SJ_personvag ... odell#ABo3
or scroll down to the bottom of this page: https://www.postvagnen.com/forum/index. ... id=1031496
You can see the combination of compartmented (non-U.S.A. acception) 1st class + parlor Swedish rail cars.

The car that stars to bee seen around 1:37 is a streamlined lightweight among heavyweigts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7vWaO9 ... IIAQ%3D%3D

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:20 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
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Location: Back in NE Ohio
djl wrote:
The car that stars to bee seen around 1:37 is a streamlined lightweight among heavyweigts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7vWaO9 ... IIAQ%3D%3D


Yes, that is a "lightweight" streamlined car of some kind. The extended skirting below the floor was a common feature of cars like that, along with having a smooth-sided, non-riveted car body. The train with the streamlined Hudson with stainless steel fluting on the tender and the fluted stainless steel cars was probably the Empire State Express or at least equipment from that train's pool of cars.


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:06 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
Yes that's a lightweight car.

NYC acquired 45 56-seat lightweight coaches from Pullman-Standard in 1941, 25 from ACF in 1941-1942 and 23 from Pressed Steel Car in 1942. Some ACF lightweights were riveted, depending on where they were built.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 74
In 1942 they still use rivetting for passanger cars in U.S.A.? I thought they went all to weling.
Did in U.S.A. where ever generator cars attached to the trains in order to provied electricity?

If you navigate to the Portugese railcar page, you will find a lot of stainless steel cars: http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/pt/car/pix.html

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:32 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
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But where I can find more images with the early "Phoebe Snow" train.
How did they decided to swithch from heavyweight to lightweight?

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:49 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
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Location: Ipswich, UK
We actually had the grand total of one Budd coach that was built for service in the UK, but not many people seem to be aware of it.

Delivered in 1947 for demonstration purposes, several photos can be found in the Model forum below..
https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index ... -princess/

However, with no money to pay for such things after WW2, no orders were forthcoming for this type of vehicle, despite it being trialled on the LMS, LNER and also in Ireland....

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:20 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 74
But after the situation staret to improve after the mid '50's, why there wasn't any more tests.

Find a intresting picture on a German site: http://www.deutschefotothek.de/documents/obj/71611855

One thing that bothers me is that if you look for "Overland Limited", some it's no mention if is the "Santa Fe" or the "Union Pacific" train or sometimes they don't specific corectly the company.
I think that the pictures up untill the one with the radio are of the "Overland Limited" by "Santa Fe" or of "Santa Fe de Luxe" or both: https://clickamericana.com/topics/trave ... rain-1910s
One of the picture (the man standing between the 2 women - the one from the behind puzzles me) can be seen here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe_ ... e_1916.JPG
Here is the "Union Pacific" "Overland Limited" (I found part of the images, thought to look for the title and found the whole thing scanned; thanks Library of Congress *):
https://www.loc.gov/resource/gdclccn.02 ... st=gallery
I wonder when they introduced electric lights
Those 2 trains could be rival with the Europeanen "Orient Expres"

Plus at the end, something intresting: http://trans-mississippi.unl.edu/memora ... 04497.html

* on which I found years ago digitized... old Romanian telephone directories (phone books)!

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:51 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 527
Location: Philadelphia, PA
The Lackawanna RR (DL&W) express train between Hoboken and Buffalo was the Lackawanna Linited. The Phoebe Snow train name came wirh the lightweight cars.

The Overland Limited followed the Overland Route, which is the Union Pacific - Southern Pacific route from Omaha to Oakland via Ogden. Their connection to Chicago was primarily the Chicago and Northwestern. Today UP owns the entire route Chicago to Oakland.

The Overland Limited was the top train between Chicago and Oakland (and San Francisco via ferry) until the diesel-powered Streamliner City of San Francisco was introduced in 1936. The Streamliner COSF was jointly owned by C&NW, UP and SP.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:21 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:25 pm
Posts: 361
Here is a Computer Generated Simulation of how the 1938 20th Century operated;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrhQxftWpu4

JUST a computer generated "film", but fairly accurate.


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