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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 564
Location: Philadelphia, PA
New York (Grand Central Terminal) to Boston in June 1954 took around 4 hours, 40 minutes. The Yankee Clipper and Merchants Limited made less stops and took 4 hours even. These times include an engine change in New Haven. Trains from Penn Station NY took 5-10 minutes longer than the regular trains. Distance was 220.1 miles from GCT.

Today Amtrak Acela trains take 3 hr 55 minutes from Penn Station to Boston; conventional trains take 4 hr 21 min to 4 hr 50 min depending on the stops. There is no engine change.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:09 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 90
Then why night cars?

What car was this one? https://www.alamy.com/american-engineer ... d0%26pl%3d

Here are some pictures with the old "Crescent" and the new one: https://hawkinsrails.net/mainlines/amtk ... scent.html

Some images with U.S.A. trains (old): http://trains-worldexpresses.com/100/111.htm
The accomodation on this sleeping car where on bot side of the coridor or just the corridor had the windows coverde by courtains? http://trains-worldexpresses.com/100/111-04s.JPG Sleeping-car of the Lake Shore Limited New York - Chicago in 1987

Menus, dining cars and even other images: https://phoebesnowco.com/blogs/
Geah, what a lost world... It makes me sad.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:20 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 90
ted66 wrote:
DJL,

I am an avid post card collector; there is a set of Overland Limited post cards from about 1912. You cna look for them on cardcow,com. They are the earliest interior views I know of.
I also have a set of 1920s cards from the Rock Island's Golden State Limited which show a shower. Dad in bathrobe, son in towel.

Back in the late 1990s, I took the Amtrak Coast Starlight down from Seattle. Along the way, the Conductor got on the public address system to announce good new and bad news. A freight train was de-railed and we would detour off the SP rails to the WP Rails through the Feather River Canyon. The passengers applauded the decision!

Another time I rode the California Zephyr from Denver to Emeryville (San Francisco). Even in Amtrak equipment, it is a great train ride, as I mentioned above.
Thank you for your questions; I learned a lot from your questions. I want to do a long-distance train ride when the covid-19 business is over.

Ted Miles


Find just one of the interior, but you page is very nice! I found other beautiful images there!

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:46 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1371
Location: Back in NE Ohio
If you want to look at old dining car menus, there is an on-line collection available to view through Northwestern University in Illinois. Search "Northwestern University Ira Silverman menu collection". Something like 450 different railroad dining car menus. Mr. Silverman gave a Zoom program to Potomac Chapter NRHS earlier this month and his donation of his collection came up in the chat. For anyone who doesn't know, Ira Silverman was an Amtrak official in at least the 1980s and '90s when I worked there, not sure exactly when he was hired or left, but I do remember seeing his name on company material.


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:57 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1565
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
djl wrote:
Then why night cars?
For a rather short trip? In some cases, passengers, sometimes even in coaches, could board long before departure time, or stay on board long after arrival time. Many times, I would surprise my travel agent by buying a sleeping car ticket from New York City, New York to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, a distance of only 90 miles. While it was a slow trip, departing about 3:00 a.m. and arriving about 5:30 a.m., I could board the sleeping car and go to bed as early as 10:00 p.m. the night before.
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The accomodation on this sleeping car where on bot side of the coridor or just the corridor had the windows coverde by courtains? http://trains-worldexpresses.com/100/111-04s.JPG Sleeping-car of the Lake Shore Limited New York - Chicago in 1987
Roomettes, the smallest private 1st Class sleeping room, on both sides of the aisle or corridor.


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:09 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 90
So you could go to bed in a sleeping car even 2-4 hours before the train was scheduled for departure?

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:41 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1371
Location: Back in NE Ohio
In some cases. The U. S. had a tradition of "set-out sleepers", meaning the sleeping car would be spotted in a station at either an endpoint or intermediate stop of an overnight train for earlier boarding and then picked up/dropped off at it's endpoint several hours before passengers had to be off of it. The last one of those, under Amtrak, was the New York Executive sleeper on the rear of the old Night Owl that existed in the Graham Claytor era of Amtrak from the early 1980s to the mid-'90s. While boarding for it in DC was at the same time as the rest of the train (roughly 10 pm for a 10:20 departure), one could occupy their room until 8 am in Penn Station, even though the train arrived there about 3 am. Southbound, I believe the car could be occupied again around 10 pm, picked up by No. 67 around 3:30 am, for an arrival in DC a little before 8 am. This one I know because I was a regular cafe attendant on the Owl sporadically in the mid/late 1980s (which means I held it when I couldn't hold anything better).


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:44 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 564
Location: Philadelphia, PA
I used that sleeper from 30th St Philly to Penn Station NY. As I recall I had an early departure from Grand Central so I boarded the sleeper when it arrived from Washington around midnight,rode to Penn Station where I slept in the car until about 7.00 AM, then subwayed it over to GCT for my next train. At that time it was cheaper than a NY hotel.

This is why they had these short-distance sleepers. In 1954, PRR ran the Train 103, The Edison, leaving Penn Station NY 1.20 AM, arriving Washington 6.45 AM. It carried Sleeping Cars only. Cars open for occupancy in NY at 9.30 PM and may be occupied at Washington until 7.00 AM.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:08 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 90
Never thought this kind of service could ever exist. Here, in Romania only charter trains problably had something like that. Otherwise, trains are pulled onto the station 10-30 minutes before departure.
Probably it had to do with the fact that "Pullman" had car meintance in more place... I don't know how it is in other Europeanen countries, but in Romania, dining, couchette and sleeping cars are "serviced" (not in tehnical terms) only in Bucharest. But beeing let to sleep onto a car hours before the departure or arrival of the train... so mind blowing!
I most go to sleep (on my bed)... it's 4.08 (A.M.) around here.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:03 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 90
The page of menus that I gave also contained pictures of cars, that's why I found it intresting.
In the past there where fright express services via rail. How fast did the fast express train go?

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:04 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1371
Location: Back in NE Ohio
Going back to why Southern Ry. gave up the Crescent in early 1979 and joined Amtrak. It mainly had to do with a devastating wreck the Northbound train suffered at Shipman, VA on Dec. 3, 1978, when it went into a curve 35 mph over the speed limit, killing six and injuring 60, also badly damaging three of its four E-8s and seven cars. The train was never the same after that and they decided to give up passenger service and join Amtrak on Feb. 1, 1979. I can't take credit for relating this story, I have to credit Alex Mayes for recounting it today in a post with photos to his distribution list (none of the wreck itself). It's not an uncommon story in U. S. passenger railroading. The beginning of the end of the original Auto Train was also a bad wreck that cost them a significant part of their fleet.


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:03 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 564
Location: Philadelphia, PA
For the most part, Railway Express moved in the same passenger trains as the passengers. Thus they moved at the same speed.

There were exclusively Mail and Express trains and there were also converted boxcars handling mail and express. Some M&E trains had cabin cars (cabooses) for the crew instead of old coaches. These cars had their trucks and brakes modified for passenger service and normally ran at passenger train speeds.

Here's a history of Railway Express in the USA.

http://www.nrhs1.org/assets/1407_July_Dispatcher.pdf

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 90
But there any other companies that offered fast freight services.
How many good things we've lost.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:41 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 564
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Through the 20th and the 21st Centuries, ALL of the major US railroads offered fast freight service. They still do.

For example, before the 1914-1918 War some roads bought 4-6-0's and low-wheeled 4-6-2's for fast freight. Most of these wound up in commuter service after the 1920's. By then roads were buying 4-8-2's and 2-8-4's for fast freight.

Up to ConRail, Erie Lackawanna ran a number of fast freights. Here are the eastward symbols. Note how much they interconnected with other carriers' fast freights:

http://rails.jimgworld.com/ebsymbols.htm

As noted, NY-100 had a name: "The Flying Saucer"

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:21 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2589
Location: Northern Illinois
We need to differentiate between "fast" expedited freight service, which is still freight, and express, which has always been an adjunct to passenger service... Also LCL (Less than Car Load) service, which is still freight (and not so fast, at least by today's standards) and freight forwarders, which also was still freight.

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