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 Post subject: Former McCloud River RR #19 fired at AoS roundhouse
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:29 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:29 am
Posts: 35
After more than 12 years idle this Baldwin 2-8-2 was test fired this week.
Looking forward to see in operating condition soon.

More info on that engine from
mccloudriverrailroad.com

#19 - Baldwin 2-8-2, c/n 42000, Built 4/1915. Drivers 48", Cylinders 20.5x28, Weight 178,400 lbs., Boiler Pressure 180 lbs., Tractive Effort 35,700 lbs. Built as Caddo & Choctaw Railroad #4; to Choctaw River Lumber Company; to Cia de Real del Monte y Pachuca #105, Pachuca, Hidalgo, Mexico; reported to have also been United Mining & Smelter Company #2069 while in Mexico; to McCloud River January 1923. Purchase price $23,149.51, plus $2,109.83 freight and $439.16 conditioning. Placed in service August 1923. Sold 8 June 1953 to Yreka Western Railroad #19, tender swapped with the #16:2 on its way off the property. Leased to Oregon, Pacific & Eastern #19, Cottage Grove, Oregon, from 1970-1988, then returned to Yreka. Operated on the YW 1989-2008, somewhat sporadically in the final years. Sold 10/6/2016 at a sheriff's auction to Age of Steam Roundhouse, Sugar Creek, Ohio. Age of Steam repainted the #19 to the OP&E scheme it wore in the movie Emporer of the North by early 2018


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 Post subject: Re: Former McCloud River RR #19 fired at AoS roundhouse
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:09 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:23 am
Posts: 343
Location: Sheboygan County, Wisconsin
Have never noticed this before, but the lower end of the combination lever extends so far down
low to near the ground. Wish the image was a little larger so I could be certain. Just seems odd to me.

I had 2 days of student trips on this locomotive in late July or early August of 1976
while she was on the OP&E in Cottage Grove. Willis Kyle offered me a job,
but I liked the security of Std. Oil and reluctantly declined. Lucky was I
as the lumber market dropped forever just a short time later and the rr. suffered.


Last edited by tom moungovan on Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Former McCloud River RR #19 fired at AoS roundhouse
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:30 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 844
Location: New Franklin, OH
tom moungovan wrote:
I never noticed this before, but the lower end of the combination lever extends so far down
low to near the ground. Wish the image was a little larger so I could be certain. Just seems odd to me.

It looks to be a function of having such small drivers, all the running gear is closer to the ground. Though it does seem the crosshead arm is a little longer than usual. But I ain’t no steam expert...

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 Post subject: Re: Former McCloud River RR #19 fired at AoS roundhouse
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:06 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:46 am
Posts: 111
Location: Elko, NV
Tom- Here's a picture of the #19 in McCloud near the end of its service life there, then a blow up of that part of the image. Hope this helps. Still looks a bit exaggerated in the today picture, but that could be just camera angle.

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV


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 Post subject: Re: Former McCloud River RR #19 fired at AoS roundhouse
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5841
Location: southeastern USA
Geometry to maintain constant lead at any given cutoff. I've seen them cut shorter after unfortunate "toe stubbing" and bending incidents, which would allow lead to vary slightly, without creating any evident problems though. It's a steam locomotive, not a Swiss watch.

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 Post subject: Re: Former McCloud River RR #19 fired at AoS roundhouse
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:56 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1865
Location: Strasburg, PA
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From Google

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From Google

It's a standard design feature of Baldwin's 90 ton Mikado. Having the bottom portion of the combination lever longer allows the upper portion to be longer too, and keeps the radius rod further clear of the valve crosshead. Our #90 has a combination lever of about the same length, though it doesn't hang below the cylinder, but it's being 3-1/2" larger in diameter than #19's explains that.

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 Post subject: Re: Former McCloud River RR #19 fired at AoS roundhouse
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:43 pm 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
...but, that's Shack's train!

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 Post subject: Re: Former McCloud River RR #19 fired at AoS roundhouse
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:24 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:29 am
Posts: 35
All the five
Baldwin 12-34-1/4-E logging Mikado's
i know have this long lever.

Caddo & Choctaw #4 built 1915 now as Oregon, Pacific & Eastern #19 in Sugarcreek, OH
Puget Sound & Cascade #200 built 1916 now as Cowlitz, Chehalis & Cascade #15 in Chehalis, WA
Pacific Lumber #35 built 1923 now as Nevada Southern #35 in Boulder City, NV
see pics above

Humbird Lumber #4 built 1916 now as Hammond Lumber #15 in Samoa, CA
Polson Logging #90 built 1926 now in Garibaldi, OR
see pics below


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 Post subject: Re: Former McCloud River RR #19 fired at AoS roundhouse
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:00 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:29 am
Posts: 35
What I found surprising that Baldwin make some different combination levers on two identical (but smaler class then above) Mikado logging engines built in the same month!

12-30-1/4-E
Manary Logging #1 now Georgia-Pacific #1 in Toledo, OR
Brooks-Scanlon #5 now Georgia-Pacific #5 in Corvallis, OR
both make May 1922

The specs are identical except the eccentric crank throw differs almost 1"

Any idea why they do that?

I know at this time every order was individual for each customer.
But did that difference mean that the piston valves with the same travel length one make the way faster then the other one?
Any influence on the steam ability or like Dave say above it is a steam locomotive not a swiss watch, don't care?


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 Post subject: Re: Former McCloud River RR #19 fired at AoS roundhouse
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:05 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:23 am
Posts: 343
Location: Sheboygan County, Wisconsin
My thanks to Jeff, Kelly and others for their help with this.


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 Post subject: Re: Former McCloud River RR #19 fired at AoS roundhouse
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:53 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 235
Quote:
The specs are identical except the eccentric crank throw differs almost 1"

Any idea why they do that?

(This part edited out account Kelly's follow up and I don't want false info out there. Sorry - my brain won't let me animate gear in my head anymore so I lost the relative position of the piston. Kelly is correct.) .... last I checked my math, the throw you show between the two is not almost an inch - it's just 9/16 longer.

As for the root why - Baldwin probably preferred the longer combo levers as they are more forgiving in machining errors (think backwoods maintenance facilities), and more travel means more/faster wear and more lost motion over time. As was pointed out they do get close to the ground with those little drivers and maybe the road with the shorter lever had more concerns with close clearances or debris contact so had to specify for more motion clearance.

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Last edited by TrainDetainer on Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Former McCloud River RR #19 fired at AoS roundhouse
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:59 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1865
Location: Strasburg, PA
I've got to disagree with you on that. Maximum valve travel is when the piston is near mid stroke, when the eccentric crank is providing its maximum influence. The combination lever doesn't provide enough motion to more than crack the valve open for lead at dead center, regardless of where it is attached, and has no influence at mid stroke.

I believe that the engine in the second photo looks to have a longer link foot, so I believe it is the engine with the greater eccentric throw. The longer link foot reduces that extra throw to the 4-3/4" valve travel needed, same as the other engine. From the ends of the link forward, the motion produced would be identical, with the possible exception of some distortion due to the extra angularity of the eccentric rod on the engine with the longer eccentric throw.

As to why BLW built them different? Beats me!

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Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


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 Post subject: Re: Former McCloud River RR #19 fired at AoS roundhouse
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2395
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
p51 wrote:
...but, that's Shack's train!

ditto

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 Post subject: Re: Former McCloud River RR #19 fired at AoS roundhouse
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:32 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:16 am
Posts: 697
Hi All

Has anyone considered the relative forces on the combination lever for each set up? It is as simple as putting a cheater on a wrench. Also notice the relative size of each rod. I think Baldwin was designing the valve gear to the Master Mechanics preferences. The longer combination rod would require less force from the piston to move the valve. However this savings would be negligible at best especially considering the relative little force needed to move the valve and the added weight to carry around.

This raises a point in preservation. The mechanical preferences of each railroad were unique. But this is a topic little understood as it requires understanding the person and their engineering preferences. One Museum is eliminating Franklin Wedge adjusters and a Stoker engine in their rebuild. In the past they have changed from oil to grease lubrication of pivot points (never bothering to remove the horse hair). Railroading is filled with personal preferences and we see these these preferences' in ways we do not always understand. I suggest you consider the Master Mechanic and the rest of managements preferences when looking at locomotives.

Robby Peartree


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 Post subject: Re: Former McCloud River RR #19 fired at AoS roundhouse
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:06 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1863
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
And I am going "off-topic" here, apologies, but I couldn't help but notice what looks like a (very recent?) application of Pullman Green to the sleeper White Castle in the left background in the first photo. Last photos I can find in a real quick search have it still in Ohio Central Maroon, but that was already 10 years ago, so...

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