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 Post subject: Anyone in the Midwest need lots of 80-pound rail?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:41 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9736
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Here's your chance!

https://www.wfmj.com/story/42653593/dol ... cross-ohio

Quote:
ORDC’s Napoleon, Defiance & Western Safety Upgrade, $4,112,452
The project will upgrade ten miles of 80-pound rail with 132/136 pound rail, and replace 29,000 ties on 29 miles of rail line on the Napoleon, Defiance & Western (NDW) railroad between Woodburn, Indiana and Defiance, Ohio. Portman wrote a letter of support in June for this project.


This line is, as I understand it, the notorious former Maumee & Western ex-Wabash line repeatedly video-recorded as trains rock over the badly-deteriorated stick rail at the most minimal speed possible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC1ajVlK-ek

https://youtu.be/wRWfjEaIHXc

As two of seemingly dozens......

I'm surprised the Penn Central Historical Society doesn't acquire it to capture the flavor of Penn Central-era branchlines............ >;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone in the Midwest need lots of 80-pound rail?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:31 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:51 pm
Posts: 208
Location: Ipswich, Mass., Phoenix, AZ
If all of it is like that then most will be surface bent badly worn and probably mostly just good for scrap.
That;s only 1000 ties per mile. The railroad looks in much poorer condition than that quantity would fix.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone in the Midwest need lots of 80-pound rail?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:58 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:45 pm
Posts: 192
One thousand ties per mile gets you well above FRA Class 1 track (10mph maximum freight speed) minimum tie counts, and probably puts you in Class 2 (25 mph maximum freight speed) if there are any decent ties already in the track. The key is to get the joint ties first (1 within 24" of every joint for Class 1 and 2 track) and then space the rest out relatively evenly. Curves get an extra tie per 39 feet, but would still be covered by the minimum tie counts. With the 132#/136# rail, there can be less stress on the ties as the rail bridges between ties. This is important because the ties must also maintain gage, surface and alinement, therefore more than the FRA minimum might be required based upon tonnage and track alinement. I'm pretty sure - based upon a number of similar projects that I've been working on - that the 1000 ties per mile are based upon these concepts.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone in the Midwest need lots of 80-pound rail?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:16 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:52 pm
Posts: 152
Location: Pittsburgh
There must be other additional funding for this project since $4.1 million wouldn’t be enough to actually complete the job. It might buy the ten track miles of rail and the 29,000 ties, but there would be nothing left to actually install those materials, much less buy OTM, ballast, rebuild crossings, etc.

Twenty-plus years ago, I fell into a deal to get reasonably good 80 ASCE rail from the ex-Tennessee Central Railroad line that serves Fort Campbell, Kentucky when it was replaced with 115 RE. By cropping one bolt hole off each end to eliminate batter and bar wear, I was able to build new track that rode smooth as glass. But I suspect the Maumee & Western rail is beyond such reclamation. If you want 80 pound rail in the “worst way”, this would likely be it…..

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone in the Midwest need lots of 80-pound rail?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 531
Location: Philadelphia, PA
For those wondering about Sandy's comment about Penn Central, here's the movie PC itself produced in 1974 when the trustees concluded a revenue-based reorganization would not be possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHmyYqfNYnc

The opening derailment at Cedar Hill (New Haven) was not staged. The folks there knew where to put the camera. I don't know where the rocking and rolling freight train was, but with a bad low joint situation, the cars could get into a harmonic situation at certain speeds. The Timetable actually had a Special Instruction that a train that could not do 30 mph must reduce to 10 mph. Many lines were limited to 10 mph.

The Movie (among other things) eventually led to ConRail.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone in the Midwest need lots of 80-pound rail?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:41 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1212
EJ Berry wrote:
For those wondering about Sandy's comment about Penn Central, here's the movie PC itself produced in 1974 when the trustees concluded a revenue-based reorganization would not be possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHmyYqfNYnc

Is that a new 1975 Cutlass at 0:52? I would be happy to dispose of it for them.

That elaborate shop the video mentions at Columbus OH at 6:55 is long gone I'll bet.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone in the Midwest need lots of 80-pound rail?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:19 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:51 pm
Posts: 208
Location: Ipswich, Mass., Phoenix, AZ
Larry Lovejoy wrote:
There must be other additional funding for this project since $4.1 million wouldn’t be enough to actually complete the job. It might buy the ten track miles of rail and the 29,000 ties, but there would be nothing left to actually install those materials, much less buy OTM, ballast, rebuild crossings, etc.

Twenty-plus years ago, I fell into a deal to get reasonably good 80 ASCE rail from the ex-Tennessee Central Railroad line that serves Fort Campbell, Kentucky when it was replaced with 115 RE. By cropping one bolt hole off each end to eliminate batter and bar wear, I was able to build new track that rode smooth as glass. But I suspect the Maumee & Western rail is beyond such reclamation. If you want 80 pound rail in the “worst way”, this would likely be it…..

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.


What Larry said. (sidebar: hated to see those great, but junkey, ex-TC bridges taken out when the line was realigned!)
ELKR ran (at 10 mph) 90 130 ton (including car weight) car unit coal trains over 85 ASCE rail with no problems, but it had been surfaced, tight bolts, rail not too badly worn, etc. and had fairly good ties and lots of ballast. Not an ideal situation but it worked.
Ned


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