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 Post subject: Re: Female engineers and Firemen in the steam era.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:30 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 638
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Brian is right. 57 Irish laborers building the Philadelphis and Columbia RR (today Amtrak's Harrisburg Line) at Duffy's Cut, near Malvern, in 1832, were caught up in the cholera pandemic of the day. It appears the survivors of the cholera were killed, possibly to prevent spread of the disease.

Cholera is a bacterial infection manifested by diarrhea and is caused by contaminated water or food. It is very contagious in the absence of sanitation.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: Female engineers and Firemen in the steam era.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:55 am
Posts: 127
So the intermediate conclusion of this thread might be that concerning the railroads, women were saved from hard labour and the draft, whilst there was widespread discrimination against black men in many ways.

I have searched long but did not find more than this one woman I even don't have the name of, who saved one of the most remarkable and valuable historical steam locomotives in many respects, the "Fire Queen" in Wales.

The story goes that when this locomotive, built in 1848, ended its working life in 1886, the daughter of the quarry's owner begged her father to save it and so it rested as a time capsule in a shed for over 80 years.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Female engineers and Firemen in the steam era.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 102
Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
@ Termite7 : intresting that your father, who was a White Southrner, so in the mind of most people a racist, did get along well with the Blacks and Northen Whites, who people considered less racist, where in fact more racist then a Southerner.

I wonder what rail companies treated theyr non-White employees better.

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Train is a way of life.
And a drug.


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 Post subject: Re: Female engineers and Firemen in the steam era.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:20 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:29 pm
Posts: 391
We experienced a lot of descrimination when we moved up north. There was always a bunch of southern construction workers who traveled around and we bonded together...usually ended up in the same trailer park. There were usually little confederate flags on some of the trailers as it would be known as "Rebel Row"...but it was all humor and no hate. As a whole we were not roundly welcomed by the local workers but the unions needed men to work and there just was not enough local guys. The local (northern) unions were all white and not pleased with black workers coming on the job either...those guys were hired because civil rights laws had required it. Another minority my dad encountered back then was American Indian (Algonquin?) iron workers...they were masters of balance and walked on the I beams like acrobats. My dad said they were pidgeon-toed which gave them an advantage. I have never heard this anywhere else...maybe this is not the place to talk about it.
T7


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 Post subject: Re: Female engineers and Firemen in the steam era.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:42 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:29 pm
Posts: 391
Not sure what moderator thinks about a link like this but...here is a RPPC of a train crew and one of them (guy on the extreme right---the best dressed one) has a darker skin tone and may be an African American. It was something some of the readers were interested in. You might have to cut and paste it in your browser to go to the page.
T7
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RPPC-b ... SwIlhfkyjx


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 Post subject: Re: Female engineers and Firemen in the steam era.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:49 am
Posts: 702
Termite7 wrote:
Not sure what moderator thinks about a link like this but...here is a RPPC of a train crew and one of them (guy on the extreme right---the best dressed one) has a darker skin tone and may be an African American. It was something some of the readers were interested in. You might have to cut and paste it in your browser to go to the page.
T7
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RPPC-b ... SwIlhfkyjx


That gentleman on the far right looks like a Pullman porter allright. In one of my earlier responses., I could not remember the name of the black steam engineer I met, the first black engineer in Louisiana. His name is Otha Green.


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 Post subject: Re: Female engineers and Firemen in the steam era.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:41 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1986
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
When I started being involved in my Dads railroad ( CRRofNJ) there were lots of black men employed on the railroad mostly in Pullman sleeping car service, terminal maintenance and section gangs. The CNJ had a 3 car office car fleet and each car had a dedicated attendant who was responsible for all things internal to that car and served as OBS when the car went on the road.

My Dad's car ( # 97) was taken care of by Mr. J.D.Wilson who retired in 1968 with 42 years service and went on to work with us on our HICO and AFT trips as senior attendant on our PV's. He insisted on working actively until very near his passing in 1981.

Back then ( 1950's-1960's) there were no women in T&E service. IIRC women did not begin to enter the T&E ranks until the 1980's thanks in part to deregulation via the Staggers Act.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Female engineers and Firemen in the steam era.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:15 pm
Posts: 7
There is also the case of Mattie Morgans. It is reported that she dressed as a man and got on an Engineers job on a railroad in Connecticut.

Terry


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 Post subject: Re: Female engineers and Firemen in the steam era.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:38 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:15 pm
Posts: 7
attached image


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 Post subject: Re: Female engineers and Firemen in the steam era.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:15 pm
Posts: 7
IN CHINA


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 Post subject: Re: Female engineers and Firemen in the steam era.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:43 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:15 pm
Posts: 7
IN RUSSIA


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 Post subject: Re: Female engineers and Firemen in the steam era.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:45 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:15 pm
Posts: 7
IN CROATIA


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 Post subject: Re: Female engineers and Firemen in the steam era.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:46 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:15 pm
Posts: 7
IN SERBIA


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 Post subject: Re: Female engineers and Firemen in the steam era.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:47 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1506
The 'woman engine driver' picture is interesting. What little documentation I have shows engine #11 as a baldwin 0-4-0, and the picture certainly seems more like a steam than an electric locomotive of the type the Bush Terminal knew in the WWI era.

There is no record of an electric #11 at all, and I couldn't find a picture showing the 'rest' of the steam locomotive with that number.

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 Post subject: Re: Female engineers and Firemen in the steam era.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:51 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:04 pm
Posts: 261
Rare pictures indeed! Thanks for posting them. In Russia I have read many stories of women that took over as locomotive engineers during the War years and they continued long after the War was over. Some worked until retirement. From what I have heard they were as tough as nails and could drink vodka like it was water. Unfortunately photos during Russia's steam era are not common especially photos of the workers.


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