It is currently Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:48 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Frisco Diner-Lounge
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:30 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:29 pm
Posts: 397
Does anybody know what happened to the ex-Frisco diner-lounge sitting at Calumet (in the NS Chicago) yards? I thought that NS had worked a deal to sell this to Pullman (for future reuse) but it looks like Progress Rail cut it up for scrap.

It was an unusual Frisco diner-lounge. How many Frisco lightweights are left these days?

T7


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Frisco Diner-Lounge
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:39 pm 

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 11:27 am
Posts: 469
Location: Switching the Coach Yard
I'm sure Jerry or Rainier can tell us for sure, but my recollection is that there were two Frisco lightweight diner lounges, both rebuilt from Observation cars. Rotten P-S cars would be the operative terms. One of these was at New Georgia and later the Frisco RR Museum in Missouri.

ETA


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Frisco Diner-Lounge
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:21 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:38 pm
Posts: 215
Location: Roanoke VA
Here are some views of both the Frisco Diner in detail and the CB&Q Sleeper as they were as of June 13th 2013. I was in the area with work and recorded there condition as a friend of mine was particularly interested in the CB&Q 480. Both of the cars were still parked on a short stub track in Calumet Yard the last time a saw them reportedly destined for display and preservation as part of the Pullman shops, in Pullman. Did they both get cut up or just the dinner? Is the CB&Q 480 still there? When did the scrapping take place? My friend wasn't going to push the issue to fallow up on the CB&Q sleeper as it was apparently spoken for (Pullman) but is that still the case if it's still around? Below are the images again taken on June 13th 2013.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

_________________
Steven Smith
Roanoke / Salem VA


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Frisco Diner-Lounge
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:33 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 366
Location: Morganton, N.C.
Unfortunately this is the first I have heard of these cars. Does anyone know which one it was? SLSF 1550 Tulsa or 1551 Oklahoma City?

_________________
jerry

Passenger Car Photo Index Updated 8/9/17 with 8,402 new links

Interurban Car Photo Index
PCC Car Photo Index


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Frisco Diner-Lounge
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:00 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 2041
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
The car at Calumet is the Oklahoma City. It was originally diner lounge observation #1551, one of two such cars built in 1948 by P-S in Lot #6768 to Plan #7541 and assigned to the Meteor, the other car was #1550 Tulsa. Both cars were rebuilt in 1960 to diner lounges for mid-train use. The #1551 was sold in 1967 to the Northwestern Oklahoma RR as NOKL #5. NOKL sold the #5 to the New Georgia RR in 1985, which renamed the car Connell-Kennedy. The #5 was later located at the Frisco Museum in Springfield, which has since closed. Ozark Mountain Railcar acquired the car as OMRX #201. The #1550 Tulsa also still exists (see below).

Termite7 wrote:
How many Frisco lightweights are left these days?


In addition to the #1551 Oklahoma City, the following cars are also extant:

Three Cars, P-S, 1948, Lot #6769, Plan #4153:

2. SLSF 14RM-4DB sleeper #1450 Pierre Laclede (from the Texas Special pool) was sold to CN in 1965 as #2095 Churchill Falls. Ownership was transferred to VIA Rail 4/1/1978 with the same name and number. VIA retired and sold the car to High Iron Travel in 1983. High Iron rebuilt the car to the business car Caritas, with Amtrak registration #800045. Iowa Pacific-San Luis & Rio Grande acquired the car as SLRG #1.

3. SLSF 14RM-4DB sleeper #1466 Cimarron River (from the Meteor pool) was sold to CN in 1965 as #2105 Rainbow Falls. Ownership was transferred to VIA Rail 4/1/1978 with the same name and number. VIA retired and sold the car to Andy and Tony Marchiando in 1983. The Marchiandos run the car as the Cimarron River in Frisco Red & Silver, with Amtrak registration #800069.

4. SLSF 14RM-4DB sleeper #1456 Eugene Field (from the Texas Special pool) was sold to the Nord Corporation in 1967, which used the car as a showroom, with the name Silver Messenger. Nord sold the car to Rail Road Enthusiasts, which later sold the car to private owners. The private owners donated the car to the Arizona Railway Museum in 2010.

One Car, P-S, 1948, Lot #6769, Plan #4121:

5. SLSF 2DB-1DR buffet lounge observation #1350 Joseph Pulitzer (from the Texas Special pool) was sold to Finlay Funtime Tours in 1965 and renamed Elihu C. Redfield. The car was sold at auction in 1994 to the Sylvester Winery outside of Paso Robles, CA. The car is now used as a wine tasting room, still in the original configuration. The Sylvester Winery also acquired Rock Island sleepers La Quinta (FFT Stones River) and La Jolla (FFT Glen Annie) at the 1994 auction, which are on site with the Joseph Pulitzer.

One Car, P-S, 1948, Lot #6768, Plan #7541:

6. SLSF diner lounge observation #1550 Tulsa (from the Meteor pool) was rebuilt in 1960 to a diner lounge and transferred to MofW service as #105493 in 1967. The car was sold to C. Arch Bay in 1972, and was later acquired by the Kentwood Arms Hotel in Springfield, MO (which is now a MSU residence hall), which also acquired the #1651 Ladue and #1652 Huntleigh. At last report it had been relocated to Republic, MO. Of these three, the #1652 was scrapped after the frame was damaged during removal from the Kentwood location.

Two Cars, P-S, 1947, Lot #6768, Plan #7539:

7. SLSF buffet lounge coach #1650 Sterling Price (from the Texas Special pool) was sold in 1967 to Johnny Marietta in Pittsburg, KS. At last report it was under private ownership and located at the Midland Railway Historical Association in Baldwin City, KS.

8. SLSF buffet lounge coach #1651 Ladue (from the Meteor pool) was sold in 1967 to C. Arch Bay, and was later acquired by the Kentwood Arms Hotel. At last report it was located in Springfield, MO at a scrap yard, where it has languished for years. Anyone volunteer to pound on the fluting and listen for that familiar sound of metal flakes?

One Car, P-S, 1947, Lot #6717, Plan #7536:

9. SLSF RPO-baggage #251 Normandy (from the Meteor pool) was donated to MOT in 1967.

One Car, P-S, 1948, Lot #6768, Plan #7540:

10. SLSF diner #650 Alexander Doniphan (from the Texas Special pool) was sold to GN in 1966 as #1156 Lake Pepin. The car was later acquired by the Sierra Western RR Co. as SW #156. The car was painted in SP Daylight colors for use on Eureka Southern's North Coast Daylight excursions on the Northwestern Pacific. After the NWP washouts and end of operations, the car was stored in Asti, CA, and was acquired by Jon Clark.

Notes:

1. The three sources listed below all had slightly different, conflicting dispositions for #1550 Tulsa and #1551 Oklahoma City, but I think I've been able to construct an accurate chain of ownership for both.

Sources:

1. Lightweight passenger cars section of the Frisco Modelers forum: http://www.frisco.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?302-Streamlined-Cars

2. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman-Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

3. Mike Condren's SLSF lightweight passenger car disposition list at: http://condrenrails.com/Frisco/Frisco_SL_Pass_Disp.htm

_________________
Ted Brumberg


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Frisco Diner-Lounge
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:18 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 2041
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
A correction to my above post:

I was doing some further checking on the Frisco Modelers forum, and found out that:

Apparently the owner of the #1550 Tulsa was told to remove the car, and after this did not occur, it was scrapped sometime around 2001.

This means that there are nine known surviving Frisco lightweights, not ten.

_________________
Ted Brumberg


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Frisco Diner-Lounge
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
Posts: 519
My understanding is that the former Q 480 is still owned by the same guy who has owned it for 35+ years, and the NS doesn't want it there either. I hope it isn't the next car to be turned into razor blades. Maybe now would be a good time to approach the owner with an offer and the NS with a plan of action.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Frisco Diner-Lounge
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:41 pm
Posts: 834
Location: Bowling Green, KY
I keep seeing NS mentioned here...... Are they in the business of rebuilding passenger cars or do I miss understand? If I do, then apologies.

Cheers, Jason


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Frisco Diner-Lounge
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:30 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 2041
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Jason--NS has been brought up because the two cars are sitting in their Calumet Yard, and NS would like these two cars removed from their property.

CB&Q 8DXR-6SRM-3DB-1C sleeper #480 Chicago (P-S, 1948, Lot #6781, Plan #4119, North Coast Limited) is listed by Randall as being sold to the Wisconsin Electric RHS (East Troy) in 1969. Does anybody know when the private owner acquired this car from East Troy??

Source:

1. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

_________________
Ted Brumberg


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Frisco Diner-Lounge
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:21 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:38 pm
Posts: 215
Location: Roanoke VA
Below is the lat.- long. for the two Pullmans stored in calumet yard.

41.698171,-87.565437

Here I hope is a direct link to a Google map of the cars location.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=41.698171,-87.565437&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x880e27a6be275b8b:0x11bc918bc015512f,41.698171,-87.565437&gl=us&ei=oifvUvvZBaa6yQGxm4HADA&ved=0CCQQ8gEwAA

_________________
Steven Smith
Roanoke / Salem VA


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Frisco Diner-Lounge
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:17 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6397
Mr.Pullman wrote:
Here are some views of both the Frisco Diner in detail and the CB&Q Sleeper as they were as of June 13th 2013. I was in the area with work and recorded there condition as a friend of mine was particularly interested in the CB&Q 480. Both of the cars were still parked on a short stub track in Calumet Yard the last time a saw them reportedly destined for display and preservation as part of the Pullman shops, in Pullman. Did they both get cut up or just the dinner? Is the CB&Q 480 still there? When did the scrapping take place? My friend wasn't going to push the issue to fallow up on the CB&Q sleeper as it was apparently spoken for (Pullman) but is that still the case if it's still around?




This is rather interesting information. I had not realized that there were some pieces of railroad equipment going to the Pullman area. The historical group there, actually had a Pullman sleeping car a number of years ago, and got rid of it. If Pullman is to be a successful tourist draw, it needs to have the story of the Pullman Company and its construction and maintenance of Pullman cars located there. The fact that these two cars might have been earmarked for a Pullman museum, is surprising. Let's hope that the report turns out to be true, and that the historical group there can take the cars before they get destroyed.

Les


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Frisco Diner-Lounge
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:29 pm
Posts: 397
The second hand information that I have is that at one time the state of Illinois was interested in some sort of museum display showing Pullman railroad equipment but the current plan is that they are instead going focus on the cultural aspects of the Pullman Company. The Frisco diner-lounge was apparently intended to represent their lightweight era cars and it seems like they had some heavyweight earmarked as well. But with the change in focus the car was no longer needed. Somehow the car became property of NS.

I do not know exactly what transpired next but it was my understanding that NS was going to sale the car to Pullman travel (Ed Ellis' company) so they could eventually reuse it. An off-forum source has led me to believe that NS later decided to pass it on to Progress Rail to scrap because they were willing to pay more for it. I wonder if this is true? Did the car get cut up in the past few weeks?

T7


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Frisco Diner-Lounge
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:13 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6397
Termite7 wrote:
The second hand information that I have is that at one time the state of Illinois was interested in some sort of museum display showing Pullman railroad equipment but the current plan is that they are instead going focus on the cultural aspects of the Pullman Company.

T7


T7 -

Actually, the latest idea to "rescue" the Pullman site (which BTW, became a National Historic Landmark District in 1970), is to make it a part of the National Park Service. Here is a preliminary survey that the NPS recently performed:

http://www.pullman-museum.org/images/recSurvey.pdf

It's interesting reading and includes a synopsis of the many Previous Studies made over the years. I found at least one mistake; the outline of the districts territory lists the eastern boundry as the Illinois Central Railroad tracks where they actually are the old Pullman Railroad Company tracks. The Pullman Railroad was eventually sold to the Rock Island and later became the Norfolk & Western and is now operated by Norfolk Southern (as mentioned previously in this thread). What strikes me is that there is really no mention of establishing a museum with Pullman equipment on site. Can you imagine a Pullman museum with no Pullman equipment?

Les


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Frisco Diner-Lounge
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:56 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:25 am
Posts: 125
The FRISCO diner/lounge is the Oklahoma City, it was sold to the A. Philip Randolph Pullman Porter museum to display at their museum. It was abandoned in the NS yard by the museum and the last I knew it was getting cut up.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Frisco Diner-Lounge
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:41 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 2041
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Thanks, mincy21, for confirming the SLSF #1551 Oklahoma City's fate. Scratch another lightweight. Do you happen to know if the CB&Q #480 Chicago is also in the process of being scrapped?

_________________
Ted Brumberg


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], philip.marshall and 30 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: