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 Post subject: Re: Supposed photo of 2816 under steam today
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:08 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Alberta, Canada
I wish to commend CP on both 2816's return to steam and the secrecy up to this point, I'm from Alberta and am involved in steam preservation, and this came as a complete surprise to me and everyone I know.

I also find it unlikely that CP would violate the regulations, and while I am no expert it would seem that the Canadian regulations provide a couple loopholes that could allow for this type of operation.


Section 31 reads:

"Flues to be removed

a) Inspection of the boiler interior During the 1472 service day inspection, the steam locomotive owner and/or operator shall remove all flues of steam locomotive boilers in service, except as provided in paragraph (b) of this Section, for the purpose of inspecting the entire interior of the boiler and its bracing. After removing the flues, the steam locomotive owner and/or operator shall enter the boiler to remove scale from the interior and thoroughly clean and inspect it.

b) NDE testing. If the boiler can be thoroughly cleaned and inspected without removing the superheater flues, and it can be shown through appropriate NDE testing methods that they are safe and suitable for service, their removal may not be required at this time. Their removal may be required, however, if a government inspector or the steam locomotive owner and/or operator, considers it necessary due to identifiable safety concerns."


Also see Appendix A, Excursions and Exceptions:

"These Standards do not apply to locomotives used exclusively in tourist excursion train service that travels no further than a round trip of 150 miles (240 km) at a speed not exceeding a maximum of 25 mph (40 km/h) if:

a)the locomotive owner uses these standards as a guide and consults with the locomotive operator and/or railway to establish appropriate inspection, safety criteria and speed restrictions to be applied exclusively in tourist trains; and

b)the locomotive operator files railway schedules with Transport Canada that specify the locations of the service, the round trip distance, the type of equipment operated, along with the applicable inspection, safety criteria, and any other restrictions imposed on the operation of such equipment, 90 days prior to operation.

c)the locomotive owner/operator complies with Part V of the Canadian Occupational Safety and Health Regulations and provides Transport Canada upon request with a current copy of the NBIC inspection report required by that Part V of the Canadian Occupational Safety and Health Regulations."

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 Post subject: Re: Supposed photo of 2816 under steam today
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:58 pm
Posts: 164
SD70dude
Under Alberta regs, CP is responsible for the boiler. So, as you say, they would be very sure not to transgress the rules.


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 Post subject: Re: Supposed photo of 2816 under steam today
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:16 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 152
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Dude,
Because this is all happening on private property, with no inter-provincial implications, could 2816 simply be operated under Alberta (ABSA) heritage boiler authorization? Not sure how the pecking order for these things work?
Certainly, CPR would be seen as a responsible and safe operator. The locomotive has been given first class care over the years, and in the overall scheme of things, has not seen a great deal of operation -- at least compared to what the 1472 rules originally envisioned.
There are plenty of modern ways to inspect a boiler both visually, and scientifically to arrive at a determination that in-yard operation would be safe.
Again, a first class move by CPR!


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 Post subject: Re: Supposed photo of 2816 under steam today
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:08 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Alberta, Canada
GW,

I'm not sure if this type of limited operation would fall under ABSA's jurisdiction, or if CP, being a Federally-regulated railway, always falls under the Federal regime. Either way, the RAC regs I quoted would seem to allow for this providing that the inspectors have been properly contacted and permission granted.

While I'm not an expert on the regulations, I do know that ABSA also does not absolutely require that tubes and flues be removed during the 5-year inspection.

Whatever happened, I'm sure that the appropriate regulator(s) were contacted, and whatever tests and work they required were performed. I cannot see CP being willing to violate any of these regulations just for the sake of making a Holiday Train video, as was noted on another forum this could have been done with CGI, and they rightly chose to go with the real deal instead.

I suspect there are several folks on this forum with experience interpreting both the Canadian Federal and various Provincial steam regulations, it would be nice to hear their expert opinions.

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 Post subject: Re: Supposed photo of 2816 under steam today
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:48 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1956
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
Gentlemen & Ladies, Those of you with any degree of familiarity with how a Class 1 railroad operates know full well that they would never ever remotely consider doing anything that came even close to possibly violating either the letter or the spirit of any regulation.

You can rest assured that they ALWAYS cross their T's and dot their I's. ALWAYS.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Supposed photo of 2816 under steam today
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:48 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:58 pm
Posts: 164
SD70dude,
I'm definitely not qualified, but there are several people who could comment, if CPR ...perhaps...bent the rules.
Up here in the Great White North, we call that burning your bridges..

co614.... has a carefully crafted sense of humour. Sure amused me..

What really goes on at CPR HQ in Calgary, Alberta, remains a mystery.


Attachments:
Calgary  Alberta July 01 (1).jpg
Calgary Alberta July 01 (1).jpg [ 251.75 KiB | Viewed 838 times ]


Last edited by Old Smokey on Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Supposed photo of 2816 under steam today
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:58 pm
Posts: 164
There are updates on the way, re. many of the questions about the boiler.
Your voices have been heard.

In the meantime here's the quality of video production that CPR is known for...
https://theroundhousepodcast.com/2015/0 ... pugc81pqbA

That's long way from what CPR started with at Steamtown Pa. in Sept 1998.


Attachments:
2816  Scranton  Sept 98 (3).jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Supposed photo of 2816 under steam today
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:58 pm
Posts: 164
Well, things are starting to move. This on the credible 2816 webpage, a few minutes ago..

........."It has been great to see all the excitement and enthusiasm over the last few days, and we are very much looking forward to featuring 2816 as part of CP's "Holiday Train at Home" program. It is fantastic having the engine back in steam, but as with all good things, there are unfortunately some limitations we need to discuss.
We have been seeing some posts (which have been moderated) submitted by individuals who have been coming down to the Ogden campus hoping to get a look at 2816 or just poking around in general, trying to observe our preparations for the event. While we understand everyone's desire to see the engine in operation, we are going to respectfully ask everyone to please STAY AWAY from Ogden. Outside visitors are not currently permitted on the campus, and the recent escalation in the COVID-19 pandemic has made the situation very sensitive.
Please remember that the whole reason for CP having a modified Holiday Train program this year is to prevent unnecessary gatherings of people. CP is taking security and pandemic containment measures very seriously, and anyone found on the Ogden campus without a legitimate reason for being there will be removed by the CP Police. (sorry, but railfanning doesn't count in this case) Any posts about unauthorized excursions onto CP property or any photos taken under those circumstances will not be permitted to be posted here, and the individuals involved may be removed from this group.
We would love to be able to make 2816 accessible to the public again when circumstances allow, but now is not the time for that. We simply can not risk having any unauthorized persons in the area, increasing the chance of COVID transmission or interrupting filming operations. Please understand that an errant camera flash can ruin a carefully-planned shot, and the unexpected noise of a drone overhead can interfere dramatically with sound mixing. CP is working hard to ensure that the quality of the virtual program will be excellent, so we are asking for your co-operation in helping us to bring you the best possible experience. The best way for you to do this is to NOT come to Ogden.
We understand that it may be disappointing to not be able to see 2816 in person, and to try and make up for that we will be posting some "behind the scenes" content in the coming weeks that we hope you will find interesting. Please stay safe wherever you are, and make sure you tune into the "Holiday Train at Home" at 6 pm
MT on December 12th to see The Empress in action!
Thanks!..."

NOT Old Smokey speaking....


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 Post subject: Re: Supposed photo of 2816 under steam today
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:22 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:30 am
Posts: 694
Old Smokey, you do realize CPR Headquarters is no longer in downtown Calgary? It's out at the Ogden shops.


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 Post subject: Re: Supposed photo of 2816 under steam today
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:00 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:58 pm
Posts: 164
k4ahudson.
Yes, thanks.
New HQ is in SW Calgary.
Agreed, I should have been more accurate.


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 Post subject: Re: Supposed photo of 2816 under steam today
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:56 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:30 am
Posts: 694
Old Smokey wrote:
k4ahudson.
Yes, thanks.
New HQ is in SW Calgary.
Agreed, I should have been more accurate.

Still not accurate enough. It's in southeast Calgary. LoL


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 Post subject: Re: Supposed photo of 2816 under steam today
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:36 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:04 pm
Posts: 241
The Rocky Mountain Express did remarkably well in the Imax movie theaters both here and in Canada. It was one of the best Imax movies I have ever seen and is currently on DVD. Considering the amount of good publicity that movie brought for both the #2816 as well as Canada, it was a crime they did not do a victory tour with that locomotive. After the movie came out I remember a lot of people wanted to see and experience that locomotive, many who didn't even know it existed. This was sadly a huge missed opportunity for Canada which could have given them the same pride with the #2816 as we have with our Big Boy. I am sure there is a lot of people who put that movie together who feel the Empress still needs her glory run in front of thousands of proud Canadians. To park that locomotive after all the excitement the movie generated, was one of the most bone headed ideas I have ever heard of.


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 Post subject: Re: Supposed photo of 2816 under steam today
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:56 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
Posts: 441
Location: Ipswich, UK
The slide hasn't particularly scanned well, but this is a 2002 dated shot of 2816 whilst it was being worked on in the Southern Railway (BC) workshops in Vancouver...
Attachment:
02-91a.JPG
02-91a.JPG [ 207.3 KiB | Viewed 420 times ]

I was on a (railfan) vacation in March of that year covering the Seattle (WA) and Vancouver (BC) areas and we had pre-arranged a visit to the SRY(BC) shops on a Sunday morning. We were rather surprised to find #2816 sitting there!
Not sure what work was being undertaken there at that time though.

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 Post subject: Re: Supposed photo of 2816 under steam today
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:58 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4268
Location: Maine
A small improvement.

Very heartening discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Supposed photo of 2816 under steam today
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:44 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:58 pm
Posts: 164
k4ahudson.
Not my day, it would seem.You are right..lol..


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