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 Post subject: Re: “why the hurry to get 1309 steamed by 12/31” I
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:33 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1390
Location: Back in NE Ohio
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Forgot this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6029

Seven more here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_W ... ling_stock

Do you count Double Fairlies as articulated?:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_F ... ling_stock

AND a few South African Garratts are still operable.......


And the two 0-4-4-0Ts on the Harz in Germany.


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 Post subject: Re: “why the hurry to get 1309 steamed by 12/31” I
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:13 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Rick Rowlands wrote:
Is this the dumbest thread in RYPN history?

(not speaking as moderator here...)


Yes, and I now have a full understanding of the term "foamer."


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 Post subject: Re: “why the hurry to get 1309 steamed by 12/31” I
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:21 pm 
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Great Western wrote:
Rick Rowlands wrote:
Is this the dumbest thread in RYPN history?
Yes, and I now have a full understanding of the term "foamer."

My only question would be, "Who cares if there was a deadline or not?"
I mean really, what difference would there have been?
There have been deadlines for running on some steam in the past (RDG 2101 getting ready for the launch of the Freedom train in '75 and 4014's run to Utah in '19 both come to mind), but what does it matter if there'd been one for 1309 or not?

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 Post subject: Re: “why the hurry to get 1309 steamed by 12/31” I
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:49 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
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Location: Thomaston & White Plains
"....but what does it matter if there'd been one for 1309 or not?"

Because we love conspiracy theories?

The engine steamed and ran. It was New Year's Eve. No one was going out any parties that night anyway. Enjoy it; another dinosaur back from "stuffed and mounted". Go see it later this year, I'm sure it will be awesome.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: “why the hurry to get 1309 steamed by 12/31” I
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:53 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 843
“another dinosaur back from "stuffed and mounted" “

Even better than that... she was rusting and ignored! Stuffed and mounted would imply that B&O Museum actually cared for the thing....


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 Post subject: Re: “why the hurry to get 1309 steamed by 12/31” I
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:12 pm 
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Posts: 180
Location: Alberta, Canada
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
p51 wrote:
My only question would be, "Who cares if there was a deadline or not?"
I mean really, what difference would there have been?


Tens of thousands of dollars to be returned to a donor?

The B&O Museum insisting it gets the loco back, and refunding the purchase price?

A contractor not getting paid?

Cancellation of a movie contract that could have helped pay for the railroad's financial investment?

Lawsuits and counter-lawsuits?

Who knows? It entirely depends what the "substance" of any such "deadline" would have said.
Nine-figure contracts for California HSR and the DC Metro's Purple Line are being voided, and/or contractors walking away, because of similar "deadline" issues, with lots of concurrent bad PR. And the last thing the WMSR needs is MORE bad press.


Do you have any sources or evidence? Or is all that just pointless, mindless speculation and conspiracy theories?

If you don't, just be happy and enjoy the sight of her back in steam, like the rest of us.

Borderline slander also has the potential to harm that organization, and as you alluded to they have been through more than enough already.

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 Post subject: Re: “why the hurry to get 1309 steamed by 12/31” I
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 843
Sharing an opinion or asking a question isn’t slander. I think the WMSR is managed by extremely incompetent individuals. That’s my opinion based on several choices they have made recently.

I’ll still plan on taking a ride behind that beautiful locomotive though and gladly pay extra to be in a vestibule / open air car right behind her working up that grade!


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 Post subject: Re: “why the hurry to get 1309 steamed by 12/31” I
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:35 pm 
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Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
Sharing an opinion or asking a question isn’t slander. I think the WMSR is managed by extremely incompetent individuals. That’s my opinion based on several choices they have made recently.


Alex 5 seems to think that the engine was steamed up only hours before a (possibly imaginary) deadline. In stating that he is implying that work on the engine was probably rushed, and when you rush something you have a much higher likelihood of making mistakes or forgetting things.

Your paragraph I quoted above is not implied slander, it is outright, and if I were making such an accusation I would make darn sure I had hard facts to back me up.

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 Post subject: Re: “why the hurry to get 1309 steamed by 12/31” I
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:32 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 750
I found the answer to ADM4's question in the advertisement on the outer mailing sleeve of the latest Trains magazine:
Quote:
Steaming the Last Baldwin is an all-new 92-page special issue from Trains magazine covering the restoration on the world's largest operating Mallet and the largest articulated steam locomotive in the eastern U.S. upon its debut in winter 2020. [emphasis added]

Hashtag #Wrinning


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 Post subject: Re: “why the hurry to get 1309 steamed by 12/31” I
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:22 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:31 pm
Posts: 10
I have no dog in this fight, but I'm sorry. This is too ridiculous to just pass up.

SD70dude wrote:
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
Sharing an opinion or asking a question isn’t slander. I think the WMSR is managed by extremely incompetent individuals. That’s my opinion based on several choices they have made recently.


Alex 5 seems to think that the engine was steamed up only hours before a (possibly imaginary) deadline. In stating that he is implying that work on the engine was probably rushed, and when you rush something you have a much higher likelihood of making mistakes or forgetting things.


First of all, he didn't imply anything of the sort. He simply asked a question. You're the one reading so deeply into it. Putting words in your opponent's mouth to make the construction of your rebuttal easier isn't a valid debate tactic. It's a logical fallacy known as "strawmanning." Just because you took the OP's question to be a veiled criticism of WSMR doesn't mean that the rest of us did. Are people not allowed to be curious?
Quote:

Your paragraph I quoted above is not implied slander, it is outright, and if I were making such an accusation I would make darn sure I had hard facts to back me up.

Actually, you're not talking about slander at all. Slander refers to spoken defamatory statements and this was written. So, the word you're looking for is "libel." Secondly, the statement of an opinion is in no way, shape, or form libel. Let's look at the actual criteria. Technically, these are the criteria for defamation, which encompasses both libel and slander.
Quote:
To prove prima facie defamation, a plaintiff must show four things: 1) a false statement purporting to be fact; 2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person; 3) fault amounting to at least negligence; and 4) damages, or some harm caused to the person or entity who is the subject of the statement.
Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/defamation

The post you were replying to doesn't even meet the first criteria. An opinion is simply not a "false statement purporting to be fact."

Might I suggest you familiarize yourself more with these basic legal concepts if you plan to continue casually throwing around such allegations in internet arguments?


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 Post subject: Re: “why the hurry to get 1309 steamed by 12/31” I
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:44 pm 
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Location: Alberta, Canada
I don't have a dog in this fight either, being thousands of miles/kilometres away and on the other side of a closed border. I'm just happy to see 1309 complete, and I don't understand why some folks need to read more into it.

I am entertained and rather surprised to see how I somehow touched one of your nerves. As you said, this is too good to pass up.

If you can't understand why the statements/questions of folks like ADMIV and Crescent Zephyr are are viewed the way they are, a legally illiterate mind like mine probably can't explain it to you.

If calling certain (albeit unnamed) individuals "extremely incompetent" without proof isn't slander or libel, it's probably a good thing I'm a railroader and not a lawyer. But I hope you aren't one either.

I suppose this probably isn't found in a legal manual, but there is a difference between asking questions out of pure curiosity, and asking those that are intended to cause trouble.

BTW, I wouldn't mind at all if all these posts, including mine get deleted.

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 Post subject: Re: “why the hurry to get 1309 steamed by 12/31” I
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:25 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:04 am
Posts: 291
Location: Lawrence, Mass.
EJ Berry wrote:
Is there an operating non-Mallet other than UP 4014?


There's this Baldwin simple 2-6-6-2 operating in Brazil, built in 1950 for the meter-gauge Teresa Cristina Railway...

https://youtu.be/I25gFll0vgI

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 Post subject: Re: “why the hurry to get 1309 steamed by 12/31” I
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:38 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 843
rjenkins wrote:
EJ Berry wrote:
Is there an operating non-Mallet other than UP 4014?


There's this Baldwin simple 2-6-6-2 operating in Brazil, built in 1950 for the meter-gauge Teresa Cristina Railway...

https://youtu.be/I25gFll0vgI


Whoa!!!! I may like her better than the Big Boy! What a fantastic locomotive. Thanks for sharing.


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 Post subject: Re: “why the hurry to get 1309 steamed by 12/31” I
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:51 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1179
Location: Pacific, MO
At this point, WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? I heard that somewhere before.


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 Post subject: Re: “why the hurry to get 1309 steamed by 12/31” I
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:22 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:58 am
Posts: 101
rjenkins wrote:
EJ Berry wrote:
Is there an operating non-Mallet other than UP 4014?


There's this Baldwin simple 2-6-6-2 operating in Brazil, built in 1950 for the meter-gauge Teresa Cristina Railway...

https://youtu.be/I25gFll0vgI



Wood fired at that!

Brian


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