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Railroad/etc. Publicity Parade/etc. Road Vehicles http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45193	Page 1 of 2

Author:

Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:50 pm ]

Post subject:

Railroad/etc. Publicity Parade/etc. Road Vehicles

Recently a gentleman in Harford County, Md. acquired from the B&O Railroad Museum an unusual pair of artifacts: a Baltimore & Ohio-built "locomotive" and "observation car" built for highway/street use in parades and the like.

The basics:
The "loco" #81 was built atop the chassis of a 1941 Chevy "cab-over" which we speculate was used for local service before being converted to a parade float for parades and other special events. The trailer behind it was styled after the B&O's blunt-end observations and got the number 7500. We have been told it was built for, and used in, the Chicago Railroad Fair of 1948-49, but only have one distant photo of it in a "road parade" so far.

I've been able to document that this "train" was used for an American Legion "40 & 8" parade in Washington, DC in 1954 (for AL Post 81--hence the loco number "81" never apparently used for other B&O diesels of the era!!), and as an advertising prop for the B&O Railroad Museum over the years. It apparently was parked in front of at least two other Baltimore museums to promote the B&O Museum back when it was still run by the B&O/Chessie System.

The pair was "de-accessioned" by the B&O Museum in late 2020 after many decades in storage. There's a lot more to the story, but let's just leave it there for now.

The new owner is evaluating, from both a historical and mechanical perspective, whether to restore the vehicle to as close to original condition/construction as possible, or upgrade to more modern features such as LED lights, modern power train/engine, etc. To that end, he needs a sense of what else exists out there in such "parade trains." He's found a photo of a modern UP version at Portola in California, and I'm trying to confirm that a Western Maryland steam loco parade truck used for the 1954 AL parade and possibly the WMRR centennial of 1954 is still extant (I'm sure I saw it in Hagerstown or somewhere else). We're attempting to gauge whether the vehicle is valuable enough as an antique/artifact of its own to preserve, or deserves a 21st-century upgrade, and part of that is tracking down other such "parade locos/trains" built for and/or used by a railroad for promotions (and not, say, amusement park parking lot shuttles).

For those who want to see the project yourself and don't boycott Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/Saving-the-BO- ... 265648421/

Attachments:

American Legion B&O train, Wash, DC, 9-54, NRHS Conv., by Chas. Wagner, MRHL Coll. (2).jpg [ 130.73 KiB | Viewed 6890 times ]

Author:	Overmod [ Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Railroad/etc. Publicity Parade/etc. Road Vehicles
If he intends to run it, he will benefit from a more modern powertrain. The way that is 'done' is to adapt everything modern so it fits the unmodified 'historic fabric' -- restoring the historic fabric itself, where necessary, using correct restoration techniques and not expedience. And it goes without saying that he document the procedures used, keep notes about reversing the work, and keep all the removed material carefully. The 'tractor', and possibly the trailer as well, would probably benefit from having a "Kelderman-rear" arrangement installed for suspension and ride-height adjustment, particularly if they will be driven on-road rather than trailered between 'uses'. This raises the additional question of modifying some of the more solid historic fabric in the frame -- again, fully reversibly and retaining the removed components, perhaps jigging them to assure their geometry in storage. Conversion of the lighting and some of the physical systems follows similarly. There's extensive physical knowledge, and quite a bit of documented methodology, about using LED or HID lighting in 'restomod' practice -- I expect much of that could be applied here to make the vehicles more useful. (In the interests of full disclosure, I am aghast that the museum would let this go, or that if they kept it and restored it to operation they would do so as a 'period piece' and not kludge it as an operating attraction. Now that it is a private asset, the rules of engagement are not the same...) I'm sorely tempted to point out that the nose contours are pretty sad, and that the new owner might care to correct this. Now, he could update to a B&O bulldog nose to do this with historical fidelity ... I wonder where we might procure such a thing cheaply...

Author:	o anderson [ Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Railroad/etc. Publicity Parade/etc. Road Vehicles
A quick few searches on this board reveal that there is an Alco built 40&8 parade loco, a GM built Futureliner, a Milwaukee Road built Hiawatha in an Iowa cornfield, and two cars from the CB&Q passenger train that later ran at the Byron Railroad and were sold at a the Alan Sherman Iron Ranch Auction. There were some discussions about others not preserved.

Author:	Robert J [ Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Railroad/etc. Publicity Parade/etc. Road Vehicles
The Wisconsin Great Northern (tourist/dinner train operation) in Trego, WI has a parade F-unit that looks to be on a highway trailer chassis. Not self powered obviously and seems to be more of a 'sign' than a parade vehicle. https://www.railpictures.net/photo/537420/ https://www.railpictures.net/photo/500167/ https://www.railpictures.net/photo/506899/ I have no information on this creation so don't know if the WGN built it themselves or got it from somewhere else.

Author:	David Dewey [ Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Railroad/etc. Publicity Parade/etc. Road Vehicles
Nothing wrong with '41 Chevrolet running gear. Pretty reliable design, parts are available. No need to "hot rod" this artifact. Just because an artifact is in private hands doesn't mean one can disrespect the heritage, although many do (as does a museum, in this case their decision to de accession this bit of their history). Of course I still have model T Fords with their Model T Ford engines in them, so I like to keep things "as they were." You can get LED bulbs that are a direct screw-in replacement and require less energy than the originals--since it's a readily reversible modification, it doesn't modify the artifact.

Author:	John T [ Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Railroad/etc. Publicity Parade/etc. Road Vehicles
Both the Burlington Northern and Canadian National had rubber tired parade trains.

Author:	Dave [ Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Railroad/etc. Publicity Parade/etc. Road Vehicles
The management of the B&O museum isn't the same as the winners of a popularity contest that run the East Nowhere railroad cub and museum. If they chose to deaccession this (if in fact it was accessioned in the first place) they no doubt had a good reason to do so - no museum can make every priority a high priority, and they have their hands full of caring for many valuable pieces of rolling stock as well as other artifacts. I'm not certain they have even completed repairing all the damage caused by the roof collapse yet...... cut them some slack and this has gone to a good home where it will be cared for.

Author:	Bobharbison [ Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Railroad/etc. Publicity Parade/etc. Road Vehicles
Overmod wrote: I'm sorely tempted to point out that the nose contours are pretty sad, and that the new owner might care to correct this. Now, he could update to a B&O bulldog nose to do this with historical fidelity... I wonder where we might procure such a thing cheaply... I think they look just fine. Compare them with B&O EMC EA #52, sister to the 51 in the museum's collection. Attachment: BO-52.jpg [ 130.68 KiB \| Viewed 6410 times ]

Author:	traingeek8223 [ Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Railroad/etc. Publicity Parade/etc. Road Vehicles
We at the ALCO Historical & Technical Society have been quietly working on the ALCO 40 & 8 Parade Vehicle we acquired from the Schenectady Museum back in 2011. Mechanical and structural work has been completed with electrical work to be done soon. Serious cosmetic work will start before the end of 2021 with an eye on returning it to parade duty in 2022. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3069547

Author:	EJ Berry [ Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Railroad/etc. Publicity Parade/etc. Road Vehicles
Reading Company T&HS has an A5 0-4-0 camelback mockup on a truck chassis. It's great for publicity in parades etc. Phil Mulligan

Author:	Overmod [ Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Railroad/etc. Publicity Parade/etc. Road Vehicles
I was thinking of the nose contours of the E8am, which would go with the Farr grilles and slantnose lower contour together. I had not seen the 'revised' headlight on the EAs before!. While there is "nothing wrong" with '41 Chevy running gear, the amount of pollution produced by the engine is enormous compared to modern replacements. Certainly there's enough precedent in historic truck restoration to allow 'period' running gear to be kept as a project; to be honest, I'd prefer it be done that way. But if the new owner expects to run this frequently, perhaps in proximity to large numbers of the general public, his insurance might be lower with better engine, brakes, and other changes.

Author:	NVPete [ Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Railroad/etc. Publicity Parade/etc. Road Vehicles
The lingering aroma of incomplete combustion from slow-moving parade vehicles on a hot and sticky summer day is about as nostalgic as it gets. LOL

Author:	o anderson [ Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Railroad/etc. Publicity Parade/etc. Road Vehicles
I seem to recall one of the major railroads had a massive and complex steam locomotive in the Rose Bowl parade within the last 20 years. I doubt it survived, being that parade. 9 years ago IRM acquired a Wabash RR parade locomotive that was at the Railroad Fair in 1948. https://hickscarworks.blogspot.com/2012/05/secret-new-locomotive.html (Thanks to Frank Hicks for pointing this out).

Author:	Bobharbison [ Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Railroad/etc. Publicity Parade/etc. Road Vehicles
The Allegheny Ludlum stainless steel "steam locomotive" comes to mind... This story is nearly the stuff of urban legends, or the fabled barn finds of car collectors. Allegheny Ludlum Steel was in my home town area and was by far the biggest employer. Over the years, I heard stories of how they'd built a "stainless steel locomotive" and some stainless steel cars too. Nobody seemed to have many details other than that however. Finally, in 1976, they did something that had never happened before, and likely hasn't happened since. They gave public tours of the mill. For those of us who didn't work there, it was a once in a lifetime chance to see the place our friends and family talked about so much. For me, it was a grandfather and great grandfather who worked there, as well as an uncle who worked on the mill railroad (and on rare occasions let me run the mill locomotive on the section of track outside the plant). The tour was amazing, for many reasons. A massive steel mill is certainly something to see, and we saw some incredible things that day. One of them was several of the stainless steel cars, as well as the "Stainless Steel Locomotive". Sadly, it wasn't an actual locomotive, but rather a farm tractor vehicle made up to look like one. It's been a long time, so my memory is very vague, but if you picture a typical parade tractor dolled up like a train, that's pretty close. After the tours, I never saw it again, or heard anything more about it. I moved out west and hadn't thought about it until now. A bit of research indicates they recently sold a few of the stainless steel cars they had left. No mention of the "locomotive", or what might have become of it. I have to think it's been preserved though, it would have been in the same shape as the cars, and surely somebody would want to save it enough to buy it. I hope so anyway.... Here's a photo of the cars to give you an idea of what they created. Attachment: AlleghenyLudlumstainlesscars.jpg [ 55.51 KiB \| Viewed 5812 times ] Article regarding the sale of the cars. https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2020/0 ... built-them

Author:	Bobharbison [ Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Railroad/etc. Publicity Parade/etc. Road Vehicles
o anderson wrote: I seem to recall one of the major railroads had a massive and complex steam locomotive in the Rose Bowl parade within the last 20 years. I doubt it survived, being that parade. It wasn't a railroad, it was Honda. I never did figure out why they chose a steam locomotive, but they did, and they did the most amazing parade float I've ever seen. There have been many train floats in the Rose Bowl parade over the years, including one with a recreation of the Golden Spike. However, the Honda float stands out for both the scale of it, being a near full sized 4-8-4, and the technical accuracy of the representation. No idea what happened after, but as you say it likely didn't survive. Too bad, as it was amazing! Attachment: Train.jpg [ 87.94 KiB \| Viewed 5802 times ]

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