It is currently Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:23 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 123 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:20 am 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
Posts: 528
Location: Northern WV
Another setback for the WMSR.

https://www.times-news.com/news/scenic- ... 70202.html

_________________
Roger Cole


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:39 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:51 pm
Posts: 248
Location: Ipswich, Mass., Phoenix, AZ
The railroad must only do one thing at a time, today it's 1309, next month we'll look at the track, then bridges, etc. Is anybody surprised by this report? After all it's pretty easy to tell what the tie condition is. If they are bad enough to require 100% replacement (very unusual BTW), then they must be really bad.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:27 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:43 am
Posts: 41
Tie condition at the WMSR is not a new issue. Here is a WMSR Operational Audit report prepared for the County, dated August 2019:

http://www.alleganygov.org/DocumentCent ... t-2019-PDF

The first issue addressed in that report is "tie condition", with 6 pages worth of analysis.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:58 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 638
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Replacing all the ties is not unheard of. Amtrak's TLM may be able to do the job at lower cost than a conventional track gang, if it's available.

Phil Mulligan


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:25 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:02 am
Posts: 6
Not sure how they can mandate all ties are replaced? As long as it complies with the track class in the TSS, that should be sufficient.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:38 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 638
Location: Philadelphia, PA
That's could be correct as to a partial tie job to minimally comply.

But according to the Stone Report, WMSR had let everything go. They had one track guy and he had no working on-track equipment. Any remedial maintenance crew would heve to be an outside contractor and I suspect TLM can do the work at lowest cost.

But then, the cars are worn out. What shape are the rails in? The heavy WM rail sounds good for now, but what about the lighter rail in the Frostburg area. The turntable needs regraded if it can be used at all. The viewscape needs improved. And on and on.

WMSR needs EVERYTHING.

Phil Mulligan


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:24 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2703
EJ Berry wrote:
Replacing all the ties is not unheard of. Amtrak's TLM may be able to do the job at lower cost than a conventional track gang, if it's available.

Phil Mulligan


The costs of getting that thing there and paying for the union crew needed to run it and the materials they'd need to provide boggles the mind.

I'll be honest. I have no idea what it costs to run that thing per hour. I haven't done the math to figure out what new ties and fresh ballast would cost per mile.

I also don't know what the WMSR budget for track repairs is.

But... I'm going to take a wild guess here and say it's nowhere remotely close to what it would cost to run the TLM over the line. Remember, they had to scratch like mad to get funds to finish 1309. I'm going to guess they don't have a million per mile just laying around.

A conventional crew replacing every 3rd tie should be sufficient, even if they're all lousy. That will still get it up to FRA standards and then some. The line's out of service, so that makes it easier. Even that is a huge expense on a line that long. I wonder where they'll get the funding.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:43 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:58 am
Posts: 106
George Pellissier wrote:
Not sure how they can mandate all ties are replaced? As long as it complies with the track class in the TSS, that should be sufficient.

Bobharbison wrote:
A conventional crew replacing every 3rd tie should be sufficient, even if they're all lousy. That will still get it up to FRA standards and then some. The line's out of service, so that makes it easier. Even that is a huge expense on a line that long. I wonder where they'll get the funding.

We agree. Perhaps the newspaper article does not express the nuances of FRA Tie Safety Regulations:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/213.109

or

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR ... art213.pdf

Just because all the ties are bad, that does not mean for Class Two railroad:

25 MPG Freight -- 30 MPH Passenger

That one has to boardwalk the railroad to run trains.

Basically every third tie and what is required under rail joints is all one needs to pass the safety standards.

Brian


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:07 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 638
Location: Philadelphia, PA
I have to concur. I got carried away with the thought of bringing all the joints right up to the point. They will need to get to minimum compliance, then keep working at it to stay in compliance. All it takes is $$$.

See:

https://www.rtands.com/track-maintenanc ... aintenance

There's a bill pending in Annapolis to fund Maryland Transit Administration. This is Baltimore Light Rail; Martinsburg WV-Was, Perryville-Balto-Was MARC trains etc. Perhaps the Western Maryland legislators can put WMSR funding in there.

https://www.rtands.com/track-maintenanc ... aign=22523

Phil Mulligan


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9898
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Rebuttal in the media:

https://www.wcbcradio.com/?news=wmsr-di ... r-comments


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1986
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
I think that Garner's remarks ring true and that if they can somehow find a way to get the state & county to provide approx. $ 2.5 M for tie replacement they'll be in business.

One issue is that there's a limit on how many times you can keep going back to the well.

I sure hope they can generate the political muscle needed to fund the tie program as it would be a crying shame to finally get the 1309 running and no railroad to run it on.

IMHO-Ross Rowland


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:39 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:07 pm
Posts: 9
From what I recall, the money the county was supposed to give WMSR after the Stone audit never came through for whatever reason. There was also supposed to be a purchase of 1200 ties for the yard area, but only about half the number was actually purchased. The county actually owns the railroad, so I would say they have the responsibility for seeing that it is maintained. Since the Stone report was done in 2019 and the tie condition was noted, I would say the effort was made to rehab the track before 1309 went into service. But, something must have fell apart before it was actually done.

One thing about this article that strikes me as odd is that the number quoted by the reporter is all the ties ln the railroad. That can't be right so I'm not sure where that number or source that gave him that number would have come from.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:36 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 901
“The county actually owns the railroad, so I would say they have the responsibility for seeing that it is maintained.”

Not necessarily. That would be in the conditions of the lease. It would appear that WMSR is responsible based on the comments made.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:13 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1519
Location: Youngstown, OH
I read the Stone report, they recommend that 2,300 ties per year be replaced, they found no joints that did not have at least one good tie and also states that 50,000 is the number of ties on the entire railroad.

Why do so many people automatically assume that the reporter got their facts straight? Haven't we already gone over how unreliable the news media is?

_________________
Rick Rowlands
J&L Narrow Gauge Railroad
"The shortest and narrowest Railroad in Ohio"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:24 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:04 pm
Posts: 261
Very sad news and I was really looking forward to visiting the #1309. Unfortunately I can't say I am very hopeful the way this jack ass operation is run. I am sure even if by some miracle the ties were paid for and installed, there would be some other issue (coal issues with another million for a pit, hopper, and conveyor). Rest assured no matter what the quoted costs are, you might as well double what ever they are asking because it's going to balloon to that anyways before they are finished. I wouldn't be surprised if when all is said and done that this project ends up costing more then the Big Boy restoration.

I have never heard of the FRA requiring the replacement of all ties (unless someone really upset the FRA inspector) and I am sure that was a misprint. I have heard for under 10 MPH you only need one good tie for every 10. Even if all goes well I wouldn't expect train rides until Fall.

This railroad would be wise to politely ask some of the class one railroads if they could spare a hopper or two full of new ties. I remember a story this engineer told me once who owned a small excursion train. He said the BNSF asked him if they could park some MOW cars on his siding for the night. He said "sure". In the morning he asked the crew if they could spare a few ties for his railroad. They ended up giving him 50.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 123 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], sandiapaul, wesp and 81 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: