Railway Preservation News :: View topic - 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go

I start getting nervous when I see government officials with no training or experience making decisions about track. Some of the biggest disasters I've had to get involved with have been from situations like this where they don't understand the rules and don't understand the liabilities.

The first clue is checking with the FRA about them reclassifying the track class. That is done by the railroad, and then the FRA simply enforces to class of track chosen (which can be different in many places along the line). The FRA doesn't really like to give too many recommendations as it can possibly remove some of the liability off of the railroad.

Another issue is whether there is anyone who can be legally responsible for the track maintenance. First, the owner is always legally responsible, although an application can be made to the FRA to assign someone else that responsibility. Then, who has the qualifications to be responsible for making decisions (49 CFR Part 213.7)?

Next - I love the comment that they heard from someone about doing the work for less. While I think that it could probably be done for less, there needs to be a qualified person make that decision who will carry the liability with them - not a hit-and-run "expert." Everyone involved needs to get the details of responsibility worked out so everyone's you-know-what is covered.

By the way, more than 20 years ago, the scenic railroad used to send managers and employees to courses that I taught on the FRA track regulations. They are all now gone from the railroad, and I haven't seen anyone from the operation in about two decades. Just to clear the air on that relationship, or lack of one.

Bart Jennings

Author:	locopilot750 [ Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
I used to be a Santa Fe engineer. I was running the two GE helpers behind AT&SF 3751 when it came east to Kansas City & Chicago, 1992 I believe. I had it from Newton to Argentine. When we rolled slowly by the Erman scrap yards, where thousands of cars and locomotives where scrapped, I saw about half dozen employees standing by their office watching us enter inter the yard. They were all waving their arms as if to say "bring in, and spot it right here".

Author:	EJ Berry [ Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
On a 1960 Iron Horse Ramble we passed Luria Brothers scrapyard in South Modena PA on RDG's W&N Branch. T-1 2124 was the road power; 2100 pulled us back. One of the passengers commented "I never thought I'd be riding through here behind a steam locomotive." Indeed a group of retired T-1's had gone there about a month earlier. About 5 miles North (compass direction; West RR direction) was Lukens Steel in Coatesville, maker of high-quality steel plate and which had a huge appetite for good scrap steel. The mill is still in business, now Arcelor Mittal. Phil Mulligan An interesting anecdote has an old RDG gondola billed to Lukens with a load of scrap, then empty to Luria's, then as a load in a newer gondola going into Lukens.

Author:	choodude [ Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
There appears to be movement at the County level to address the track issues: County to take over scenic railroad track maintenance CUMBERLAND — Allegany County is in the process of taking over track maintenance from the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad, according to county Commissioner Dave Caporale. Caporale spoke about the move following Thursday’s regular meeting of the Allegany County Board of Commissioners at county offices on Kelly Road. “We are going to maintain the tracks on our own so we don’t find ourselves in this position again,” said Caporale. From: https://www.times-news.com/news/local_n ... 4982c.html

Author:	co614 [ Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
A very significant step forward. Track maintenance is very costly and it will be a major blessing for the WMSR to have this taken care of by the county. Always nice to have a rich uncle !! Ross Rowland

Author:	6-18003 [ Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
co614 wrote: A very significant step forward. Track maintenance is very costly and it will be a major blessing for the WMSR to have this taken care of by the county. Always nice to have a rich uncle !! Ross Rowland It sounds to me like the “rich uncle” isn’t too happy at the moment...

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1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45267	Page 9 of 12

Author:	mmi16 [ Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
choodude wrote: There appears to be movement at the County level to address the track issues: County to take over scenic railroad track maintenance CUMBERLAND — Allegany County is in the process of taking over track maintenance from the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad, according to county Commissioner Dave Caporale. Caporale spoke about the move following Thursday’s regular meeting of the Allegany County Board of Commissioners at county offices on Kelly Road. “We are going to maintain the tracks on our own so we don’t find ourselves in this position again,” said Caporale. From: https://www.times-news.com/news/local_n ... 4982c.html Sounds as if the county thinks they can 'out cheap' the work the WMSR has done. Desiring to drop from Class 2 to Class 1 track

Author:	Rick Rowlands [ Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
Class 1 track isn't going to hold up too long with the 1309, and the reduction to a 15 mph top speed isn't likely to give the WMSR a schedule that will permit maximizing revenue.

Author:	Bartman-TN [ Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
I start getting nervous when I see government officials with no training or experience making decisions about track. Some of the biggest disasters I've had to get involved with have been from situations like this where they don't understand the rules and don't understand the liabilities. The first clue is checking with the FRA about them reclassifying the track class. That is done by the railroad, and then the FRA simply enforces to class of track chosen (which can be different in many places along the line). The FRA doesn't really like to give too many recommendations as it can possibly remove some of the liability off of the railroad. Another issue is whether there is anyone who can be legally responsible for the track maintenance. First, the owner is always legally responsible, although an application can be made to the FRA to assign someone else that responsibility. Then, who has the qualifications to be responsible for making decisions (49 CFR Part 213.7)? Next - I love the comment that they heard from someone about doing the work for less. While I think that it could probably be done for less, there needs to be a qualified person make that decision who will carry the liability with them - not a hit-and-run "expert." Everyone involved needs to get the details of responsibility worked out so everyone's you-know-what is covered. By the way, more than 20 years ago, the scenic railroad used to send managers and employees to courses that I taught on the FRA track regulations. They are all now gone from the railroad, and I haven't seen anyone from the operation in about two decades. Just to clear the air on that relationship, or lack of one. Bart Jennings

Author:	PMC [ Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
Sounds like county road commissioner thinking: if the speed limit will only be 15, and therefore cars only need to go 15, make a road capable of 15 mph, like a gravel road, which is not what class 1 track means. Even a new build spur with a 15 mph limit wouldn't have two of every three ties bad.

Author:	Bartman-TN [ Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
"Even a new build spur with a 15 mph limit wouldn't have two of every three ties bad." Wait - I've seen new county industrial park track built that way with only 5 ties per 39 feet, because that is what Track Class 1 calls for! One of these projects actually had the track gauge at 58 inches since that was "the standard." That is why there needs to be someone with experience and tested knowledge supervising the work. Just because you can read the standards doesn't mean that you understand them. Bart Jennings

Author:	mmi16 [ Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
Bartman-TN wrote: I start getting nervous when I see government officials with no training or experience making decisions about track. Some of the biggest disasters I've had to get involved with have been from situations like this where they don't understand the rules and don't understand the liabilities. The first clue is checking with the FRA about them reclassifying the track class. That is done by the railroad, and then the FRA simply enforces to class of track chosen (which can be different in many places along the line). The FRA doesn't really like to give too many recommendations as it can possibly remove some of the liability off of the railroad. Another issue is whether there is anyone who can be legally responsible for the track maintenance. First, the owner is always legally responsible, although an application can be made to the FRA to assign someone else that responsibility. Then, who has the qualifications to be responsible for making decisions (49 CFR Part 213.7)? Next - I love the comment that they heard from someone about doing the work for less. While I think that it could probably be done for less, there needs to be a qualified person make that decision who will carry the liability with them - not a hit-and-run "expert." Everyone involved needs to get the details of responsibility worked out so everyone's you-know-what is covered. By the way, more than 20 years ago, the scenic railroad used to send managers and employees to courses that I taught on the FRA track regulations. They are all now gone from the railroad, and I haven't seen anyone from the operation in about two decades. Just to clear the air on that relationship, or lack of one. Bart Jennings My understanding is the County is the owner - and would be the liable party for track failure issues.

Author:	Bartman-TN [ Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
I also understand that the county owns the track. This makes them responsible for the inspection process, all maintenance, and any defective conditions. It also makes them responsible for all documentation, the qualification of employees, and a number of other tasks. At one time, the tourist railroad assumed all of this as part of the operating agreement, although I'm not sure it was ever done officially with the FRA. It sounds like there is a bit of confusion or uncertainty about how it is being handled right now. Bart

Author:	Crescent-Zephyr [ Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
On the wiki page for the 1309 it lists a “simple” and a “compound” tractive effort. What’s the difference?

Author:	Dave [ Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 1309 - All dressed up and nowhere to go
Whether you expand the steam once or twice.

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