Hi -

I do have some ideas, and I think the overall diversity and inclusion topic is something we will explore in depth on Ahead of the Torch in the near future.

There's a lot out there for non-rail groups. I am a fan of the Minnesota Association for Volunteer Administration "8 strategies." They are a very good start for getting our heads around outreach and the work needed to create inclusive environments.

https://blogs.volunteermatch.org/8-strategies-for-creating-a-more-inclusive-volunteer-program

And there is a good recent Forbes article on the pitfalls: https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbeseq/2021/03/29/top-4-reasons-diversity-and-inclusion-programs-fail/?sh=25aeb4a57c84

Rob

I'll be really blunt:

That sort of destructive behavior, those sorts of discriminatory attitudes, have no place in what we do. Anyone who behaves like that is a short-sighted fool.

It's an uphill battle for us anyway: we always need more resources (time, money, people), and driving any resources away is so self-destructive. You might as well put a gun in your mouth.

If that's a problem for anyone, then stay in your basement and play with your model trains- you won't get cooties from any of "those people" that you're so afraid of.

Society changes, it always has and always will. We're going to fade out in a few short decades if we can't change. Grow up, be adults, deal with it.

Treat others as YOU would want to be treated. That's real simple stuff. Most of us learned that by first grade.

The only things I care about someone involved in the old train biz are: be interested, be dedicated, be willing to learn, be safe, be open to having an amazing time bringing our dinosaurs back to life.

And for anyone who's lurking here, who has experienced a problem someplace else, you're welcome in Northwestern Connecticut. We have lots to do, and we don't care about engaging in idiotic nonsense. And we have some awesome after-work dinners. And we have a great shop cat.

Howard P.

Maybe Burt Lancaster was not a prophet but you, Mr. Pincus, may well be. Very well said. Thank you.

In addition to Rob's response, I would consider the following:

"Ask not what your potential members can do for you. Ask what you will do for your potential members."

Try to understand their perspectives. What challenges might they face in participating in your organization? What do they gain though being part of your organization directly (membership benefits) and indirectly (valuable skills, team environment, etc)?

Here's one of the podcast episodes that delves into this a bit: https://theroundhousepodcast.com/2018/0 ... -heritage/



You must understand that I cannot take the advice of someone accusing me of "lazy and unprofessional journalism" and an approach that "lacks vigor, effort, and enterprise" seriously. I hope you too have a great day.

Unless you have already posted these unverified anecdotal stories, I have not accused you of anything. Just utilizing this discussion to give you a view as to how one person may view such publication and requesting that you be transparent as to your methods so people considering what you have published/posted can make their own judgment with all of the applicable information available for consideration. And thanks, yes, it is a beautiful day here.

CZ - It’s a survey, not investigative journalism. There’s a big difference.

Rob - Excellent post.

My two cents.... I’m very interested in the results of the survey out of my own curiosity. As an “old white guy” brought up in an open-minded household (for its time) with a strong, independent mother and two older sisters, it pains me to see anyone not treated simply as a person but as an “other”. Ignorance and intolerance breeds nothing but more ignorance and intolerance. If you don’t shine a light on it, how do you become sensitive to the situation and better informed?

Good info, but how do we actively recruit a more ethnic diverse (and LGBTQ) crew into our current mechanical/operations project(s)? So far, we've encountered an apparent lack of interest, though not a lack of interest from youth, as we have a good handful of millennial volunteers. I would like to hear from other tourist railroads on how they have attracted and recruited folks from the Black and LGBTQ communities into their volunteer ranks. Thanks.

On the one hand, most of us don't do a real good job of community outreach, so perhaps expanding it but not targeting it to specific obvious groups but more universally might be useful in more ways then one. On the other..... well, I have seen some pretty unfortunate attempts to reach specific audiences that came across as pandering more than inviting. I think making any variety people know that they are welcome as visitors or as involved actors and broadcasting it widely and wisely makes a lot of sense. Including exhibits and interpretation that isn't limited to old white men would be good too...... unless it's free prostate exam day.

Perhaps the best way is to not try to actively recruit from any group, but to recruit HUMANS who have an interest. We are after all, talking about people here. Everyone is unique, a concoction of DNA, genes, experiences, intelligence and knowledge wrapped up in a hundred pounds of flesh. It is to minimize that uniqueness to just look at someone as LGBT or woman or black or whatever and not as an individual. This is my big problem with identity politics. We have devolved to dehumanizing people and just looking at their skin color or sexual orientation, then using that limited information as all that is needed to judge a person. There is no way to know anything about a person if all you care about is their skin color or sex.

Yes I know that must make me a "racist" or "sexist" or full of "white male privilege" or harboring "unconscious bias" to look at people as PEOPLE, but no amount of pressure, cancelling, name calling, insults and snide remarks is going to change who I am. I was raised in a time when the goal was the creation of a colorblind society and that is what I believe. It is a shame that so many people have willingly decided to abandon that worthy ideal.

I agree with you Rick

John

Rick,

It seems you are taking a stand on both sides of the issue. It is that women aren't interested in things, so therefore should not be involved in the nuts and bolts of preservation or is it that everyone is an individual so we shouldn't reach out to under-represented or unrepresented groups?

Roger

It would be a boring person who wasn't many things at once, so I think we can eliminate that issue from consideration.

Mr. Hahn,
I do not know Mr. Rowlands, so cannot speak for him. However, he is simply pointing out verified studies that show that, in countries with stricter gender equality laws, people have shown they will generally follow their own wills in their life choices. Males and females will continue to do the things they have always done, despite the desire of socialist thinkers to skew the system.
To say that Mr. Rowlands believes women "should not be involved in the nuts and bolts of preservation" seems to badly skew his meaning.
The truth is, despite the 21st century lies, males and females often have different interests and make different life choices. However, they should not be prevented from doing those things that best suit their abilities or interests. I still hear the term "male nurse" for example. That is simply because males do not enter that field in the same numbers as females, so having a nurse who is male is somewhat rare. It does not mean that males cannot do the job. One of the best boiler welders I have known is female.
The survey shown in the opening post of this thread seems simple enough, and allows people to respond if they have been wronged. However, as we are seeing, these sorts of efforts can raise red flags or divisions, so must be handled with care. Is the survey being conducted to deal with a genuine problem, or simply to satisfy some "woke" perceptions? I am not asking out of sarcasm, just for clarity.
Your organizations need YOUNG people. Your organizations need to attract YOUNG people based on their skills and willingness to work. Your organizations need YOUNG people who are not afraid of getting filthy, greasy, and tired.
If your organizations are actively seeking out young people based mainly on their gender, race, or other attributes, you are heading down the right of way to failure.
On the other side of the coin, your organizations should learn to handle the old timers who may be causing problems for younger volunteers or employees. That can be done privately and without shaming people who have given of themselves for many years to your organizations. Do you really want to alienate the people who do all your hard and dirty work? Do you really want to alienate the people with decades of learning and skills that you badly need?
Overt sexism, racism, and bigotry are different matters, and need to be dealt with more vigorously. However, a myth of the 21st century is that only white males can be racists and bigots.The real world shows otherwise.
To me, the term "woke" means dead. In an earlier post, someone said do unto other others as you would have them do unto you. That used to be known as the "Golden Rule." It is was most exquisitely expressed by Jesus of Nazareth as, love your neighbour as you would love yourself. Jesus gave that as one of the two vital Laws through which we must conduct ourselves. The first Law was to love and honour God with all your heart and soul, because He is the Creator of the Moral Law, and a law can only function if it has an overarching authority. Another pillar of that understanding is that all human beings are created in God's Image, and so we all have the spark of the Divinity in us and deserve the respect that suggests. We have a couple of generations of people who have thrown these key understandings aside, and we are beginning to pay the price.
If we treat our fellow human beings within that understanding, all the other things are insignificant. Treat people with love and respect. Correct mistakes with kindness and diplomacy, not with shouting and derision.
For young people aspiring to get into railway preservation, understand that you will be required to prove yourself. That is true in all aspects of adult life. It is not a bad thing -- it is part of a healthy learning and growing experience.
I know tossing religion into this mix will rankle some, maybe even the moderators on here. So be it! It is a point of view still held by many, although suppressed in 21st century culture. It is still a valid point of view, even though it makes some uncomfortable.
On another recent thread, I mentioned a group that recently formed in the steam traction engine hobby called "The Ladies of Steam." These are young, intelligent women who took the bull by the horns, so to speak, and actively pursued their hobby. Theirs' has been a different approach, based on their own perseverance and skills. They have earned great respect in that hobby. The success of that movement has come from its positive and constructive approach. - https://www.facebook.com/ladiesofsteam/
For Heaven's sakes folks, do not restrict yourselves. Open your minds to a wider world of possibilities. Use common sense. Cherish common decency.

Discrimination is discrimination. Actively trying to recruit one group means that you are at least passively discouraging another group. Circa 1980 (when "affirmative action" and hiring quotas were still a thing), I was making the rounds of the freight railroads in my area looking for a job. The reply I got? "If you were a Mexican woman, we'd hire you in a minute, but we have no openings for white men." How is that any less wrong than discrimination the other way, especially when no Mexican women were applying for a job?

It's not "should not be involved", it's "generally are not interested". People in this thread (and country) need to stop putting words into other people's mouths.

I will be happy to leave the work force and no longer have to deal with any of it. I'll put on pants that come up to my chest, yell at the kids to stay off my grass, and bitch about the government full time.

The question is, how do you know they aren't interested?