I do not believe that it is the place of any organization to "allow" or "disallow" what is on a private vehicle. I think we go too far when we start thinking that we have veto authority over the appearance of vehicles parked in a lot. I'm not sure that is even legal.

I spent a long time working on a class 1 in the engineering craft and eventually in the GOB. Let me tell you the craft people run the political gamut and you know what they learn how to live and let live with out caring if someone has the stars and bars on their car. If you want to preserve railroading preserve the bickering in crew rooms, MoW meeting rooms and C&S shops, it was half the fun stirring things up. And remember if you don't hear a good rumor before 9 make one up.

Why do you feel it is it important for me to categorize my personal relationships in terms of racial identity--or gender, or age, or whatever?

And why do you feel "the dynamic and the experience" HAS to be different if neither I nor the friends in question see it that way?

And most importantly of all, why should your opinion of our personal relationships matter one iota?

And, actually, if you re-read the entire thread, I DID describe a relationship with one of my Black friends. (Weirdly enough, by sheer coincidence, all three of the Black members of my one NRHS Chapter--that we ever knew about--died within two months of each other.)

Re reading the thread, I did read where you did ask the question of how to get more Black participation, and I applaud you for doing so. With that in mind, outside of your association with the Black NRHS members, how many Black people do you come in contact with daily, or at all? Statistics say that 75 percent of white people have no minority association outside of work. You skew that a bit because you did associate with Black NRHS members. But to your other question of whether the dynamic is different? Well, because it is.

If you truly want to ask the question of how to get more people (women, minorities, etc.) go to the source, with respect and a true attitude of wanting to welcome people, some who are vastly different from themselves, into the world which we love and care so deeply about. That's what needs to happen.

Even among most white men, what we do is looked down upon as "playing with trains" in popular culture. Lets not forget that what we do is a niche interest group. Our industry is one that is in decline even among white males for many reasons that have been hashed out on this forum over the years. It is entirely possible that part of what makes some people "vastly different" includes not having much of an interest in 20th century heavy industry.

The more this goes on, the more it exemplifies why this industry is dying. No one can just shut the hell up and work on trains, always has to be a prick waving match about something. People don't want to deal with it.

I wasn’t aware the industry was dying. The organizations that are filled with the “old guys” who say things like “women don’t belong in a steam locomotive” I’m going to guess those organizations will die off. But most the operations I’ve visited I’ve seen Women, POC, and LGBT members who are proud of the role they plan in a thriving steam train community!

Really?



And how exactly could you see there were LGBT members?

Mike

There are no organizations filled with old guys who say, “Women don’t belong in a steam locomotive.” What is your source for such a claim?

Perhaps a good gauge as to this is how much vitrol even the suggestion of there being a problem received.

What is your source that my claim is incorrect?

Yeah really. Operations I visit are doing great. How did I know an operation had lgbt members? I spoke with them and they mentioned it. Occasionally one may even flirt with me although less and less as I’m getting older :( lol

[quote="Txhighballer"] But to your other question of whether the dynamic is different? Well, because it is.

Tex, perhaps you could provide more information on the differences you perceive? Even the best intentioned people have blind spots and could use some illumination.

From here it looks like the Women in Railroading issue is dying a natural death (along with troublesome practitioners and less physically demanding work situations, Rick) but we still need to work on racial and gender identity inclusivity a lot more. Your mileage may vary.

I have not claimed that your claim is incorrect. You have referred to "The organizations that are filled with "old guys" who say things like "women don't belong in a steam locomotive." I am only asking how you know that such organizations exist. Is that not a fair question?

Or are you just stating your claim as a hypothetical description of a problem that you merely believe to be widespread?

A certin rypn troublemaker said so earlier in the thread.