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 Post subject: The End For WMSR 734?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11501
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Supposedly recently released by the Western Md. Scenic RR in Cumberland:

Quote:
CUMBERLAND, Md. -- Western Maryland Scenic Railroad
(WMSR) announced details yesterday regarding the future of their famous steam locomotive no. 734, "Mountain Thunder".
Last Friday, the same day tickets went on sale for the railroad's reopening, the 1916-built locomotive turned 105 years old. It has remained out of service since 2016, but stabilization work has picked up on the 734 in recent months, as the restoration of their other steam locomotive, former Chesapeake and Ohio no. 1309, comes to a close.
"No. 734 will be cosmetically stabilized and continue to receive attention to keep its condition from deteriorating further as time and resources allow," WMSR said in the announcement. "At a work session earlier this year, volunteers began removing the jacketing and lagging from the boiler and cylinders and assessing the locomotive’s overall condition and preparing it for light cosmetic repair work."
An operational restoration still seems a long ways off, however. The locomotive returned to service on the railroad in 1993, and aside from some downtime in the early 2000s, remained in continuous service on the mountain railroad until 2016. During that time, many years of hard running took a massive toll on the veteran engine, and as WMSR explained, the locomotive was in dire need of major work when it was withdrawn from service.
"Contrary to popular belief at the time the engine was withdrawn, no. 734 is not mechanically sound," WMSR said. "Our new mechanical team has found accounts and inspection forms that indicate the locomotive was performing well below peak efficiency during her final years in service. The locomotive was often pushed far beyond its normal operating capabilities, which has resulted in extreme wear and tear of many key components, particularly the running gear."
At this point, the railroad says that the 734 will need a similar level of work, and associated cash investment, as the restoration on the 1309, which has totaled seven years of work and over $3 million, largely raised by donations and grants. Coupled with the facts that there are many other projects that take priority over the 734, and the locomotive is not as suitable for the railroad as it once was, the 734's operations will likely not resume for some time.
"The railroad has many other projects that will require our attention before any work can begin on no. 734 in earnest," WMSR said. "If undertaken, [an overhaul] would also mean a significant investment in a locomotive that no longer meets the daily needs of the railroad... we do not anticipate beginning work in earnest at any time within the next few years."
However, the railroad did not rule out the possibility of a return to service in the future. There are duties that the 734 could handle during the off-season. The railroad says the operating future of the 734 depends on the outcome of a full mechanical evaluation.
"While it is our intention to return no. 734 to service one day, this will ultimately be determined by the outcome of a thorough evaluation," WMSR said. "This does not remove the possibility of no. 734 operating on the lighter, off-season trains and as stand-by power for no. 1309. For now, it is no. 1309’s time to shine but, if circumstances allow, no. 734’s time in the spotlight could come again someday."


Reading between the lines, I suggest someone make an offer for 734--preferably someone who never saw videos of the steam-leaking, off-square loco in her last days on the line......


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 Post subject: Re: The End For WMSR 734?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:03 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:36 pm
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Location: Bucks County, PA
Direct link to the announcement: https://wmsr.com/2021/04/remarks-on-734-105th-birthday/


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 Post subject: Re: The End For WMSR 734?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:17 pm
Posts: 246
"pushed far beyond it's normal operating capabilities"

I'd have thought during the steam era, it would have been absolutely beat to hell with 0 regards for wear and tear, after all it was just a tool. Whereas it might have been worked hard on the WMSR but surely back in LS&I days, much more so?

It has 57 inch drivers or are they smaller?


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 Post subject: Re: The End For WMSR 734?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1499
CA1 wrote:
"pushed far beyond it's normal operating capabilities"

I'd have thought during the steam era, it would have been absolutely beat to hell with 0 regards for wear and tear, after all it was just a tool. Whereas it might have been worked hard on the WMSR but surely back in LS&I days, much more so?

It has 57 inch drivers or are they smaller?


Yeah that was a strange quote. It seems they are really trying to blame previous management and justify the expense of the 1309 with that press release.

I rode 734 just a few months before she went down. There was no diesel assistance and she sounded great to me.


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 Post subject: Re: The End For WMSR 734?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11501
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
I rode 734 just a few months before she went down. There was no diesel assistance and she sounded great to me.


If all you care about is how loud the chuffs are, fine. Maybe it takes a tuned ear or something.

I remember seeing some videos of some of what turned out to be the "last runs" of 734 before withdrawal, and I literally CRINGED at 1) how much steam was leaking from places it shouldn't have and 2) how off-square the valve timing was. It was like watching videos of the final days of steam at Northwestern Steel & Wire's GTW 0-8-0s or some of the more derelict Cuban or Chinese steamers.

One of the guys who took one of the videos said to me "It's not supposed to sound offbeat like that, is it?"


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 Post subject: Re: The End For WMSR 734?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:59 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
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Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
I rode 734 just a few months before she went down. There was no diesel assistance and she sounded great to me.


If all you care about is how loud the chuffs are, fine. Maybe it takes a tuned ear or something.

I remember seeing some videos of some of what turned out to be the "last runs" of 734 before withdrawal, and I literally CRINGED at 1) how much steam was leaking from places it shouldn't have and 2) how off-square the valve timing was. It was like watching videos of the final days of steam at Northwestern Steel & Wire's GTW 0-8-0s or some of the more derelict Cuban or Chinese steamers.

One of the guys who took one of the videos said to me "It's not supposed to sound offbeat like that, is it?"


Obviously it was a few years ago and for the most part I was just there to have a great time riding behind steam in the man-o-war car. I don’t remember it sounding particularly out of time but maybe I had foam in my ears? Lol.


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 Post subject: Re: The End For WMSR 734?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11501
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Those who know what to listen for can judge for themselves.

https://youtu.be/BccZ7UXvqUo?t=70

I have heard far worse--recordings of a couple War Department and National Coal Board 0-6-0T's running out their final days in the UK, as an example.


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 Post subject: Re: The End For WMSR 734?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:52 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
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The video that ADM posted shows a bit of the track's condition at about the 5:38 mark:
Video starting at the 5:38 mark

I see a total of two replacement ties, one of which has an anti-split plate on its end.

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 Post subject: Re: The End For WMSR 734?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:56 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:17 pm
Posts: 246
I don't think it sounds that bad all things considered. Sure it's had some wear on it, but depending on where the reverser is sat doesn't seem quite as awful as people make it out to be.

Also, it looks like cold weather which will highlight any steam, but the "leaks" just appear to be worn cylinder packings. - Again, not exactly the end of the world.

But who knows what type of running gear work it needs without hearing from WMSR
Could be any combination of a few axles, or tires, perhaps box/journals, rings, sleeves, rod brasses, spring/brake work ... who knows..

One thing for sure, it could put on a show. Surely one of the largest 2-8-0s?


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 Post subject: Re: The End For WMSR 734?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:55 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:09 am
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Location: St. Louis, MO
CA1 wrote:
One thing for sure, it could put on a show. Surely one of the largest 2-8-0s?


If you're asking if the LS&I's SC-1 class #34 is "one of the largest 2-8-0s (still in existence)", then I'd have to say "yes". #34/#734 & her sister #35 (#33 is a "half-sister" since she was built for the Munising, Marquette & Southeastern & was later acquired by the LS&I) are very large 2-8-0s.

However, there were a handful of 2-8-0s that were bigger and stronger than the SC-1s back in the steam era. Here are a few examples of the 5 strongest classes of 2-8-0s I know of (excluding the high-pressure, water-tube firebox E-7 class from the D&H):

Lehigh & New England ES-14 class (info: https://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobas ... ilroad=lne)
Image

Western Maryland H-9/H-9a class (info: https://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobas ... ailroad=wm)
Image

Reading I-10sa class (info: https://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobas ... ailroad=pr)
Image

Delaware & Hudson E-5a class (info: https://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobas ... ailroad=dh)
Image

Lehigh & Hudson River 90 class (https://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobas ... lroad=lhr_
Image

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- Diesels are boxcars with an engine, but steam is an iron horse.


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 Post subject: Re: The End For WMSR 734?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:30 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:51 pm
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Location: Ipswich, Mass., Phoenix, AZ
I think Sandy's just being silly and trying to stampede everyone into thinking 734 is gone for good. I submit that she's simply being prepared for display because WMSR doesn't want her sitting around looking like heck, plus she'll add to the railroad "atmosphere" of the place. After all of the criticism they've received over the years they don't want, or need, any more. So paint it up. Assuming the 1309 is a success then in a few years they may have accumulated enough money and good will to restore 734.


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 Post subject: Re: The End For WMSR 734?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:35 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:17 pm
Posts: 246
That L&HR 2-8-0 is massive.

Such a shame one of the big WM 2-10-0s wasn't saved.


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 Post subject: Re: The End For WMSR 734?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:25 pm 
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Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Those who know what to listen for can judge for themselves.
[i]https://youtu.be/BccZ7UXvqUo?t=70

Man, you're not kidding. It's hardly the worst valve timing I'd ever heard but it's not good!

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 Post subject: Re: The End For WMSR 734?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11501
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
nedsn3 wrote:
I think Sandy's just being silly and trying to stampede everyone into thinking 734 is gone for good. I submit that she's simply being prepared for display because WMSR doesn't want her sitting around looking like heck, plus she'll add to the railroad "atmosphere" of the place. After all of the criticism they've received over the years they don't want, or need, any more. So paint it up. Assuming the 1309 is a success then in a few years they may have accumulated enough money and good will to restore 734.


I have spent literally 50 years reading press releases. I grew up in a newspaper "home office" and then the newspaper office itself. Our mail came into one of the three largest PO Boxes in my town--the other two for the water company and the telephone company.

I have lived journalism from both sides of the editor's desk for decades. I know the art of crafting a good press release and the art of reading between the lines of a BS-laden press release. (I've seen the latter as bad as "Baghdad Bob," to use a now-dated reference.)

The WMSR press release up there is what gets written when you don't want to admit you have to possibly retire the "star" of your marketing campaigns for the past decade or more ("MOUNTAIN THUNDER!!!").

The reality, of course, is that of COURSE the RR can put 734 back in service if they 1) really NEED to and 2) find a whole bunch of funding. However, I heard similar things about a couple sisters of 734: 18, 20, and now 29. The reality is that, pandemic COMPLETELY aside here, both the GCRY and the WMSR have badly outgrown the abilities of even a "massive" 2-8-0. On both RRs, if they're running a train on their punishing 3% grades that a 2-8-0 alone can handle, and it's not a premium-priced photo charter, THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG. And that's pandemic completely aside.

GCRY 29 finds herself in a similar situation: She's up for overhaul that costs money. Through no fault of her own, it's hard to justify that economically given the current climate of steam on her home railroad, at least until 4960 needs down time. And even when she DOES run, she needs a diesel helper, or doubleheading with 4960 and an HEP unit. It's love for steam that keeps her around, not need. The GCRY needs a budget allocation to overhaul her, and in this current "market climate" that's not happening--I'm literally stunned they haven't retreated to weekends-only for the past year. I'm absolutely certain that what's still running at GCRY is out of the kindness of Xanterra to keep their employees (the ones not furloughed/laid off) and the overall business as solvent as they can long-term.

The reality is that the way the WMSR has been running for the past couple years is just like the dieselized GCRY, only Frostburg isn't the South Rim. If--IF--1309 does what it's supposed to do with no real problems, then the only true "need" for 734 is to fill in as front-end noise/show during any 1309 overhauls to come.

There is no timetable for 734's rebuild.
Honestly, for the time being, there shouldn't be.
Get passenger counts back up there, and they can justify it.
Until then, just pull out the videos and photos.
Or a strategic offer.

Yours,
Someone who has been waiting THIRTY-THREE YEARS to ride behind PRR 1361 again......


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 Post subject: Re: The End For WMSR 734?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:24 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1499
It sure seems like the members of this board are the most anti-steam people I’ve ever encountered.

No museum or tourist railroad is a necessity. Of course steam isn’t necessary.

If all you want to do is make money, there are lots of easier and more rewarding ways than running a tourist railroad that’s for sure.


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