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 Post subject: Major Work Planned for Klondike Kate
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:51 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
I just noticed this on the Facebook page of the South Park Rail Society:

For the first time in 80 years or so we have a mechanical team working in the roundhouse over the winter.

The goal is to restore Klondike Kate to health for 2022 and beyond. The scope of work is as follows:
1. Boiler UT readings taken, and the necessary calculations performed
2. Both cylinders bored
3. New pistons
4. New piston rings
5. New cylinder cocks linkage and activating lever
6. New mechanical packing for piston rods
7. Welded over or plugged staybolts replaced. About 18 in total
8. Corrosion remediated on boiler belly and throat sheet.
9. Lower boiler shell repainted
10. All washout plugs chased. Some of the 12 TPI had been threaded with 11 1/2 TPI fittings. Leaking belly plug repaired
11. Some new wash out plugs fabricated
12. Transition nipples made for 12 TPI to 11 1/2 TPI
13. Oil lines from lubricator replaced
14. Ash pan removed
15. Oil Bunker being built for tender
16. Oil burner being made for engine
17. Firebox to be bricked. New firepan being made with draft doors. (Old ash pan had no draft openings)
18. All straight bolts (incorrect) on side and main rods replaced with newly fabricated tapered bolts
19. All main and side rod bearings bored to pin dimensions
20. Engine to be trammed and rods fitted accordingly.
21. All cellars pulled for inspection of journals and hub liners
22. New rear cylinder head fabricated
23. New tapered bolts made for crosshead guide bars to replace straight bolts.
24. Lap throttle and repair problem with it sticking
25. Fix leaks in branch pipes
26. Remove welded-in grate supports to accommodate bricked firepan
27. Paint jacket
28. If time permits - repairs on tender trucks
29. If time permits - examine lead and trailing trucks
30. If time permits - Install sanders
31. Polish crank pin journals
32. Modify wrist pin and rod pins so they don't hit the counter weights
33. Fabricate new crosshead wedges for piston rod with proper dimensions
34. Alter or replace split bearing wedges with ones that fit correctly

You might also have noticed - we are converting #4 to burn oil! This is huge for us, given the situation with Colorado wildfires and the need to reduce fire danger.
As many of you can see this list is amazingly extensive. If this work was given to an outside vendor we would be looking at in excess of $150K or more.
Instead, all of this work is being done by our amazing volunteers. Even though the labor is being donated, there are still great costs associated with this type of work for material, electricity, heat and insurance.

All the mechanical team volunteers are coming every Saturday to work on the engine as weather permits. Some are providing additional financial support and some are donating hundreds to a thousand hours of machine and fabrication work.
Extensive track work and more stub switches are planned for 2022. The track work will focus on completing improvements for the existing track first. We will need a few switches for the summer track work, thus we will be fabricating parts for those. The water tower will also progress this spring with a goal of hopefully completing it this summer.

It is our intention to be able to fire the engine up for 4 events this coming summer plus the normal railroad days. We need your donations desperately. If you can't donate money we need clean used motor oil, rags, good 55 gallons barrels and hand cleaner.
Please everyone. Share this post. This cannot happen without outside financial support. There is new life in Como with people who want to see this succeed on a large scale basis. You can be a part of this too!

https://fundrazr.com/a1uBU4?ref=sh_57H2Ec_ab_3Dh4fQB73fx3Dh4fQB73fx

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 Post subject: Re: Major Work Planned for Klondike Kate
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:28 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:50 pm
Posts: 567
That is a rather ambitious winter's and spring's worth of work. Can't wait to see it come to fruition as well as the next round of trackwork.

Rob Gardner


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 Post subject: Re: Major Work Planned for Klondike Kate
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:02 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 39
Back in February of 2017 or sometime thereabout, I recall the Klondike #4 heading to Wasatch Railroad Contractors (WRC) for a lot of the aforementioned work to be completed. It would seem that none of what was scoped out originally was actually completed based on the extensive amount of work needed just 5 years later. Does anyone have any more information on what was done to the locomotive while at WRC?

Jeff

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 Post subject: Re: Major Work Planned for Klondike Kate
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:19 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:44 am
Posts: 18
Jeffrey Fefferlyn wrote:
Back in February of 2017 or sometime thereabout, I recall the Klondike #4 heading to Wasatch Railroad Contractors (WRC) for a lot of the aforementioned work to be completed. It would seem that none of what was scoped out originally was actually completed based on the extensive amount of work needed just 5 years later. Does anyone have any more information on what was done to the locomotive while at WRC?

Jeff



Here we go again..


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 Post subject: Re: Major Work Planned for Klondike Kate
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:01 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:06 pm
Posts: 239
Location: Bendena KS
MakerofBoiler wrote:
Jeffrey Fefferlyn wrote:
Back in February of 2017 or sometime thereabout, I recall the Klondike #4 heading to Wasatch Railroad Contractors (WRC) for a lot of the aforementioned work to be completed. It would seem that none of what was scoped out originally was actually completed based on the extensive amount of work needed just 5 years later. Does anyone have any more information on what was done to the locomotive while at WRC?

Jeff



Here we go again..



Mr. "MakerofBoiler",

To me it would seem that your snarkyness towards Mr. Fefferlyn is unwarranted, afterall he is asking a quite reasonable question; Why would a locomotive that apparently received a bunch of work less than 5 years ago need much of it redone? (keeping in mind that the locomotive in question has operated for a grand total of 10 days and covered less than 50 miles since arriving in Como)

Anyway, speaking from firsthand experience, I will try to answer Mr. Fefferlyn's original question. (as a disclaimer, I am speaking soley for myself as i presently have no involvement with either the owners of the locomotive or the SPRS):

Essentially Mr. Fefferlyn answered his own question, most of the work that Wasatch billed for (and was paid for) was not performed and much of what was, was done incorrectly.

Here are a few examples of what I saw firsthand;

- Upon arrival in Como, the fasteners for the steam dome lid, cylinder heads and branch pipes in the smokebox were finger tight.

- The steam dome lid leaked no matter how tight the fasteners were cranked down . Subsequent examination showed the Wasatch installed "gasket" to be nothing more than some heavy gauge copper wire wound around the studs.

- The air compressor was plumbed backwards, such that it functioned as a vaccum pump rather than an air compressor. As all of the steam piping was welded together (as opposed to the more traditional use of unions and couplings) this was no small task to rectify.

- The Wasatch built ashpan was incomplete and was not actually attached to the locomotive in any fashion (it was just resting on the frame rails under the firebox)

- The fireman's side main rod was installed upside down

- All of the washout plugs as well as the injector check valves leaked.

- Many of the bolts on the side rods were just straight hardware store bolts and most of the keys and wedges were just hand cut chunks of mild steel plate (these were all most likely installed by the church group in Oklahoma, but Wasatch was paid to disassemble and inspect the running gear as well as perform any needed repairs, so regardless of their origin, Wasatch felt that they were OK as they did not rectify them)

Though beyond dissatisfied, the owners of the locomotive elected to pay Wasatch and move on with their lives and the SPRS (who leases the locomotive from the owners) has been slowly working to rectify the deficiencies.

My guess as to the impetus for the current project and fundraising is that a decision has been made to expand the operating schedule and, in turn, fix all of the locomotive's issues at once.

Again, these are my thoughts and observations, I am not speaking for any person or organization.

Jason Midyette

As an aside, I would note that Mr. "MakerofBoiler" has only been a member of our community for a little over a month and has only posted on threads relating to Wasatch. Sure would be interesting to know his/her real name, but I'm not holding my breath.


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 Post subject: Re: Major Work Planned for Klondike Kate
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:04 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:44 am
Posts: 18
Jason Midyette wrote:
MakerofBoiler wrote:
Jeffrey Fefferlyn wrote:
Back in February of 2017 or sometime thereabout, I recall the Klondike #4 heading to Wasatch Railroad Contractors (WRC) for a lot of the aforementioned work to be completed. It would seem that none of what was scoped out originally was actually completed based on the extensive amount of work needed just 5 years later. Does anyone have any more information on what was done to the locomotive while at WRC?

Jeff



Here we go again..



Mr. "MakerofBoiler",

To me it would seem that your snarkyness towards Mr. Fefferlyn is unwarranted, afterall he is asking a quite reasonable question; Why would a locomotive that apparently received a bunch of work less than 5 years ago need much of it redone? (keeping in mind that the locomotive in question has operated for a grand total of 10 days and covered less than 50 miles since arriving in Como)

Anyway, speaking from firsthand experience, I will try to answer Mr. Fefferlyn's original question. (as a disclaimer, I am speaking soley for myself as i presently have no involvement with either the owners of the locomotive or the SPRS):

Essentially Mr. Fefferlyn answered his own question, most of the work that Wasatch billed for (and was paid for) was not performed and much of what was, was done incorrectly.

Here are a few examples of what I saw firsthand;

- Upon arrival in Como, the fasteners for the steam dome lid, cylinder heads and branch pipes in the smokebox were finger tight.

- The steam dome lid leaked no matter how tight the fasteners were cranked down . Subsequent examination showed the Wasatch installed "gasket" to be nothing more than some heavy gauge copper wire wound around the studs.

- The air compressor was plumbed backwards, such that it functioned as a vaccum pump rather than an air compressor. As all of the steam piping was welded together (as opposed to the more traditional use of unions and couplings) this was no small task to rectify.

- The Wasatch built ashpan was incomplete and was not actually attached to the locomotive in any fashion (it was just resting on the frame rails under the firebox)

- The fireman's side main rod was installed upside down

- All of the washout plugs as well as the injector check valves leaked.

- Many of the bolts on the side rods were just straight hardware store bolts and most of the keys and wedges were just hand cut chunks of mild steel plate (these were all most likely installed by the church group in Oklahoma, but Wasatch was paid to disassemble and inspect the running gear as well as perform any needed repairs, so regardless of their origin, Wasatch felt that they were OK as they did not rectify them)

Though beyond dissatisfied, the owners of the locomotive elected to pay Wasatch and move on with their lives and the SPRS (who leases the locomotive from the owners) has been slowly working to rectify the deficiencies.

My guess as to the impetus for the current project and fundraising is that a decision has been made to expand the operating schedule and, in turn, fix all of the locomotive's issues at once.

Again, these are my thoughts and observations, I am not speaking for any person or organization.

Jason Midyette

As an aside, I would note that Mr. "MakerofBoiler" has only been a member of our community for a little over a month and has only posted on threads relating to Wasatch. Sure would be interesting to know his/her real name, but I'm not holding my breath.



Zero "snarkeyness" towards Mr. Fefferlyn intended. It should go without explanation that my comment is directly related to more corner cutting by the contractor. Thanks for weighing in.


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 Post subject: Re: Major Work Planned for Klondike Kate
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:05 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:56 pm
Posts: 91
You mean to tell me that someone may have been billed, and was paid for work that may not have been performed? Where have we heard that before?

I’m glad they are doing this work. It seems like a neat operation with potential. If I ever get out west I can’t wait to visit it.


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 Post subject: Re: Major Work Planned for Klondike Kate
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:51 pm
Posts: 442
Location: Ipswich, Mass., Phoenix, AZ
Well put Jason.


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 Post subject: Re: Major Work Planned for Klondike Kate
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:15 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 924
I question my sanity to even respond to this thread. I did not think Mr Boilermaker was necessarily snarky towards any one person. It is the topic and the contractor which is a sizzling hot topic. People comment often based on opinion with little actual first hand knowledge rather than opinion. I include myself in the little actual knowledge on this subject so I ask the question to someone who would know the true details of what the contractor was actually hired and paid for?

The list of things to do sound like a Todo list from a contractor who might of been hired to do an eval on what needed repair or replacing? Not saying it is so, just stating that is what it looks like to me. If I did an eval and found all these things wrong I would not fix any of it. If I was the owner or lessee of "Klondike Kate" and I had been billed for all these repairs which are a lot and would be expensive to fix/repair I certainly would not of paid the bill? WAG your talking a couple hundred thousand dollars if farmed out? Maybe less maybe more, just a WAG. Maybe the owners didn't like the news that this was going to get pricey? Some of the things mentioned like finger tight nuts on steam dome make sense to me. It is going to need work and people are going to have to go inside why would you torque them down. The "copper wire" description could be the appropriate copper gasket or what the contractor found in place? With a todo list like this locomotive has extensive and expensive repairs. Was the mentioned contractor actually paid to repair all this? All the washout plugs leaked? Was this boiler washed out as part of an eval and the plugs only put in finger tight? Not saying this is so, but this is the internet and people go off on witch hunts not knowing or filling the readers in with all the details, just the ones that they "heard about" or to continue throwing fuel on the fire? Ash pan not installed? Ya sounds right with all the things that are known to be wrong? All the planned work?

Cute engine and I wish the good folks in Como all the best. A very cool place from the pictures I have seen. I just question the blame or what I perceive as blame to be more demonizing of the contractor without facts to back up the suggestions? That horse has been beat to death already. I hope the group succeeds with the work planned. In all the volunteers that come very Saturday I hope Stasi or Gary Bensman or someone of knowledge is leading the restoration so it gets done and done in proper order. Every project of this scope needs a good leader to direct all the volunteers. Not saying it isn't happening, but the industry doesn't need any more poorly planned restorations and the engine needs some professional help. Again a very cool place and wish them the best. Just questioning some of the statements made?

So anybody know actual facts on what was really done or not done or paid for and not done? I don't speak for anybody other than myself too so I do not profess to know who what and where. But I am out front with this. "All I know is bla bla bla" is not facts it is what you heard. Not snarky one bit, just asking questions based on what I read here. Regards, John.


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 Post subject: Re: Major Work Planned for Klondike Kate
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:19 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 39
Jason - Thank you for sharing those details. That answers my question.

MakerofBoiler - No harm no foul, my friend. I figured the context of your response was in reference to said contractor.

Cheers,
Jeff

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 Post subject: Re: Major Work Planned for Klondike Kate
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:43 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2561
Location: Strasburg, PA
Looks like anyone can follow the story of this engine here. Scroll back to February 2017 when she was sent to Wasatch. She was then delivered to Como around August of 2017 and has been under a lot of repair for not much operation since then.


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 Post subject: Re: Major Work Planned for Klondike Kate
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:49 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
I was under the impression that heavy gauge copper wire is an appropriate gasket for a steam dome. All three of our J&L Porters have such gaskets and on the 58 the original gasket was in such good shape that after annealing it, I put it back on the boiler.

Even our boiler drawing calls out a No. 6 (I assume 6 AWG) gasket.


Attachments:
Screenshot 2022-01-27 124803.png
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 Post subject: Re: Major Work Planned for Klondike Kate
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:27 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:47 pm
Posts: 216
Rick, copper gaskets are a standard for domes. If I'm reading what was stated correctly
Quote:
...nothing more than some heavy gauge copper wire wound around the studs.
It sounds as if it was not a single copper gasket "hoop" laid on/in the gasket groove, but passing around the studs in some fashion, which would not create anything near a proper seal. Almost sounds as if someone with no idea was told to "put a gasket in and seal the dome" and figured it out as best as they could. Reminds me a little of this:

Attachment:
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Captioned "New guy keeps asking for more gaskets"

-Sam


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 Post subject: Re: Major Work Planned for Klondike Kate
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:18 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 924
Thanks for the link Kelly. Certainly looks positive with all the repairs and construction. What a beautiful little roundhouse too. Like to put that locomotive under my next Christmas tree. She is a cutie pie. Best to this organization. It reminds me of the Maine 2 footers with the can do attitude. Congrats on the efforts.

After scanning the link Kelly provided I see so much more has been done and is ongoing out in Como, Co then I knew about. Wow that is impressive what has been going on and getting done. I tracked down the facebook page to 2017 and then my computer froze up. But I must say this place is awesome and way more than I thought. Gung ho gung ho!

Did not intend to offend anybody about locomotive restoration team. I thought the write up made it sound like it was worse than I thought. Ya tapered bolts would be best ha! Some of the repairs mentioned sounded scary. This place is fast becoming bucket list material! Regards, John.


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 Post subject: Re: Major Work Planned for Klondike Kate
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:49 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
Sam,

OK that makes much more sense. Putting wire around the studs is so out of the ordinary that it didn't even compute to my brain as a possibility!

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