It is currently Mon Jul 15, 2024 1:36 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: NdeM Niagara moved to new exhibit site
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1611
Location: Byers, Colorado
Today NdeM Niagara #3038, and three cars from the Presidential train "El Tren Olivo" were removed from the railroad display in Chapultapec Park in Mexico City and transferred by truck to Santa Lucia. The new location was described as "facilities" or a "temporary exhibit".
The story I got described #3038 as an ALCO locomotive, but this is a mixup caused by her not having her original BALDWIN plates anymore.

I will provide more and better information when I have it.

_________________
I am just an old man...
who wants to fix up an old locomotive.

Sammy King


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NdeM Niagara moved to new exhibit site
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:58 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
Posts: 2577
Location: Faulkland, Delaware
That's hopefully good news. I wonder what's happening with the remained of the railroad equipment there in the park. I'd have to check my photos but I think there was a UP Centennial, an old switcher, a boxcab electric, a geared locomotive, and maybe a couple of others.

_________________
Tom Gears
Wilmington, DE

Maybe it won't work out. But maybe seeing if it does will be the best adventure ever.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NdeM Niagara moved to new exhibit site
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1611
Location: Byers, Colorado
So far as I can tell, everything else is staying at the industrial exhibit in Chapultapec park. This includes two cars from the Tren Olivo. There was also a restaurant as part of the railroad area, which was a full size copy of the stone station at Ozumba. (The original still stands on the abandoned narrow gauge line to Cuautla and Puebla, and is now a local bus station.)

_________________
I am just an old man...
who wants to fix up an old locomotive.

Sammy King


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NdeM Niagara moved to new exhibit site
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:50 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:49 am
Posts: 765
Could this be the beginning a steam program south of the border? With CP 2816 hopefully going to Mexico City, could this be the beginning of something new?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NdeM Niagara moved to new exhibit site
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1611
Location: Byers, Colorado
Of course I would like to think so. But the pictures I saw would indicate that the people moving her had never moved a locomotive before, because they obviously tried their first lift with the straps routed over the boiler handrails, smashing the one on the fireman's side all to Hell. My information said that the Mexican government was in charge, and I would be inclined to believe that.

No matter what you may hear, or would like to see happen with 3038, I advise not believing anything until you actually see that it has really happened.

_________________
I am just an old man...
who wants to fix up an old locomotive.

Sammy King


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NdeM Niagara moved to new exhibit site
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2023 2:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1611
Location: Byers, Colorado
Based on information supplied by Dave Conrad, we have this news:

My list shows NdeM No. 3038 as on display as of 1/2022, without it's
tender, at the new Felipe Angeles Airport, Zumpango, State of Mexico.

A Google search led me to a youtube post revealing the rest of the story:

Yes, it's true. She is on display minus her tender, minus some appliances, and with plenty of damage to handrails and plumbing because she was moved by somebody with no steam locomotive experience. There are three heavyweights right behind her cab. She had been in excellent, complete condition at her previous display location in Chapultapec Park, with five heavyweight cars coupled to her tender.

QUE LASTIMA.

_________________
I am just an old man...
who wants to fix up an old locomotive.

Sammy King


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NdeM Niagara moved to new exhibit site
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2023 8:43 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:31 am
Posts: 37
Hi All
Here is a photo I found on the web, showing damage to fireman's side of locomotive, Pat.
Attachment:
File comment: Photo found on web showing damage to fireman's side of locomotive.
NdeM 3038 damage.jpg
NdeM 3038 damage.jpg [ 33.41 KiB | Viewed 5533 times ]


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NdeM Niagara moved to new exhibit site
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2023 8:52 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4665
Location: Maine
Where is her tender and why hasn't it been included? Que' lastima,indeed!

_________________
"It's only impossible until it's done." -Nelson Mandela


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NdeM Niagara moved to new exhibit site
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2023 10:19 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1611
Location: Byers, Colorado
Sorry, I do not know the answers to your questions, Dick. Hopefully the "tanque" (Spanish for tender) and other two cars from the Presidential train are still at the old exhibit site. The present display site seems to be a metro station serving the new Mexico City international airport. At the time the NdeM was privatized, there were three Niagaras in good, complete condition, with the 3033 being operable in the Aguascalientes roundhouse. Today only the 3034 remains in the national railroad museum in Puebla. My memories of 3038 in steam 57 years ago give me little comfort now....

_________________
I am just an old man...
who wants to fix up an old locomotive.

Sammy King


Last edited by QJdriver on Fri Sep 29, 2023 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NdeM Niagara moved to new exhibit site
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2023 10:20 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:31 am
Posts: 37
Hi Richard
My guess either they ran out of money, or maybe the operators doing the move,refused to move the tender, or maybe for lack of space, for the exhibit, . ?????

The other question I saw was CPR 2816 going to Mexico city, I did not believe that, until I when up to the CPR 2816 website, and the Train's magazine website, and saw that in print.. you never know, what will come next.???? Pat.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NdeM Niagara moved to new exhibit site
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2023 10:39 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1611
Location: Byers, Colorado
You'll never solve the puzzle by trying to be logical. Remember the Mexican GOVERNMENT was in charge...

_________________
I am just an old man...
who wants to fix up an old locomotive.

Sammy King


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NdeM Niagara moved to new exhibit site
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2023 11:20 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 268
There have been a growing number of cases where local historians overseeing museum projects don't realize that a tender is integral to the function of a locomotive and was designed to meet specific operating criteria. This is often indicated when an exhibit is described as a "locomotive and coal car".

Some recent cases include:

Southern Pacific 982 in Houston; see the links in this thread: viewtopic.php?t=46858

The liquidation of the Wichita Falls Railroad Museum So far, the locomotive (Fort Worth and Denver ALCO 2-8-0 No. 304) is intact. However, in presenting recommendations, the local historian described the locomotive as a locomotive and coal car and recommended that they be kept together, as though there could be an alternative. See the links here: viewtopic.php?t=46830.

With this background, I suggest anyone interested in the tender and passenger cars remaining in Chapultapec Park reach out ASAP. It is very likely that they have been deemed not significant and therefore subject to scrapping.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NdeM Niagara moved to new exhibit site
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2023 12:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1611
Location: Byers, Colorado
If anybody knows HOW and TO WHOM we should reach out so that we will be listened to...
Please let us know.

_________________
I am just an old man...
who wants to fix up an old locomotive.

Sammy King


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NdeM Niagara moved to new exhibit site
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2023 12:26 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 268
I would suggest a first step would be to reach out to other railroad museums in Mexico as they would have an up-to-date assessment of what is happening on the ground. Additionally, the might be involved with ongoing discussions regarding the collection.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NdeM Niagara moved to new exhibit site
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2023 11:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1611
Location: Byers, Colorado
Mr Cornillie, Thank you for your interest in 3038 and for your suggestion. I also want to apologize if the next paragraph comes across as dismissive or arrogant. For what it's worth, I will TRY and put your suggestion into effect...

OK --- My guess would be that you don't have much experience dealing with either the Mexican government or Mexican RR museums. I say this because your logical idea isn't really how things work down there, in my 55 years of experience. The three engines I have managed to get pulled out of the scrap line and put on exhibit were the result of lucky accidents much more than my doing anything right. I also got there in time, whereas I believe we are most likely a year or two too late if they really DID decide to scrap the tender and two heavyweights.

Maybe you or somebody else will do some good by trying a different approach than I might recommend. It's certainly a fact that we won't have any impact on this situation if we do nothing.

VIVA VAPOR MEXICANO !!!

_________________
I am just an old man...
who wants to fix up an old locomotive.

Sammy King


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: B&Ofan5300, Google [Bot] and 47 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: