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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Rail Road names new general manager
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:39 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:33 am
Posts: 7
Location: Baltimore, MD region
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
Personally…. I feel like Strasburg is leaning too heavy on “entertainment” like murder mysteries. They also added pre-recorded audio which is very Disney but takes away from a strasburg tradition (I’d love the option of a non-narrated car personally…. The hello Dolly platform is close enough :)


You nailed it on the head! I've heard complaints not only from the train buffs, but also the "regular" tourists just out for a train ride, that the pre-recording narration is more or less.... well, let's just say what it is: stupid. The narration, read from a script over a PA system that I've known my entire life since I've been going to the railroad since I was a little kiddo in 1994, has character. It's what makes Strasburg.... Strasburg! It adds a personal touch, and doesn't skip every 30 seconds. The Disney-fication needs to be undone so the railroad can get back to their roots, while at the same time, adapting to the social media age of 21st century life.

Also, to indulge in a bit of foam...

- Yes, it would be great to see an engine from across the street be brought in and restored back to operation. Could it be done? Maybe, for the right amount of cash.

- As it was proven with the N&W 611, a visiting main line steam locomotive or even a smaller scale event like the Train Festivals in Dennison, Owosso and Rock Island would be great to see. I don't know if main line trips of old to places like Harrisburg and could be done again, but even something of that sort within the confines of the SRC trackage would be great.

Just some 2 cents thrown in...

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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Rail Road names new general manager
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:27 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:58 am
Posts: 211
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
Also, to indulge in a bit of foam...

- Yes, it would be great to see an engine from across the street be brought in and restored back to operation. Could it be done? Maybe, for the right amount of cash.


I'm under the impression that the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania has chosen to designate their collection as historic artifacts that shall be preserved. and not worn out by using them.

Folks here will recognize one of the oldest perpetual motion machine discussions about preservation vs. use could very well erupt again. Please don't.

To change this policy would require spending money on purchasing / leasing politicians in Harrisburg PA.

Please support the Steam Up LIRR #39 G5s movement instead of politicians.

Brian


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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Rail Road names new general manager
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:33 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1681
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
choodude wrote:
To change this policy would require spending money on purchasing / leasing politicians in Harrisburg PA.
Most of those critters are running for reelection this November. Are you registered to Vote?


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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Rail Road names new general manager
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:50 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:58 am
Posts: 211
JimBoylan wrote:
choodude wrote:
To change this policy would require spending money on purchasing / leasing politicians in Harrisburg PA.
Most of those critters are running for reelection this November. Are you registered to Vote?



Just received my mail in ballot today and it's filled out ready for Monday's mail pickup.

Brian


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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Rail Road names new general manager
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 10897
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
JimBoylan wrote:
choodude wrote:
To change this policy would require spending money on purchasing / leasing politicians in Harrisburg PA.
Most of those critters are running for reelection this November. Are you registered to Vote?


1) I've heard no argument that this policy needs to be changed, nor have I ever heard one that would sway me. In fact, as a general philosophy I support erring on the side of caution and NOT risking or altering historical artifacts in "governmental" administrative custody.

2) If such "micromanagement" policy for the administration of a museum or historical site or its artifacts can be changed at the whims of who won an election or "purchasing/leasing politicians," YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.

By "it," of course, I mean all historic preservation, not just the micromanagement of artifacts. Imagine an elected legislature or executive taking upon itself to, say, eliminate the Smithsonian Institution as "too Eurocentric," or another wanting to do away with museums dedicated to Native Americans, civil rights struggles, the Underground Railroad, women, etc. as "divisive tribalism"............


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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Rail Road names new general manager
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:43 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:58 am
Posts: 211
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
JimBoylan wrote:
choodude wrote:
To change this policy would require spending money on purchasing / leasing politicians in Harrisburg PA.
Most of those critters are running for reelection this November. Are you registered to Vote?


1) I've heard no argument that this policy needs to be changed, nor have I ever heard one that would sway me. In fact, as a general philosophy I support erring on the side of caution and NOT risking or altering historical artifacts in "governmental" administrative custody.

2) If such "micromanagement" policy for the administration of a museum or historical site or its artifacts can be changed at the whims of who won an election or "purchasing/leasing politicians," YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.

By "it," of course, I mean all historic preservation, not just the micromanagement of artifacts. Imagine an elected legislature or executive taking upon itself to, say, eliminate the Smithsonian Institution as "too Eurocentric," or another wanting to do away with museums dedicated to Native Americans, civil rights struggles, the Underground Railroad, women, etc. as "divisive tribalism"............



What He Said!!!!! Like

Brian


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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Rail Road names new general manager
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:08 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:12 am
Posts: 549
Location: Somewhere off the coast of New England
Quote:
purchasing / leasing politicians in Harrisburg PA.

Lyndon Johnson is alleged to have once said that the real problem with the Viet Nam war was that the Diem Brothers did not understand that in America, or at least in Texas, when you buy a politician he is supposed to stay bought.

... and here I was operating under the blithe assumption that we were discussing Mr. Hager and or his predecessor.

Silly me.

GME

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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Rail Road names new general manager
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:46 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1803
Do I not recall that a certain K4 restoration was royally bollixed in no small part through government 'attention'?

Likewise a certain Eastern articulated?

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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Rail Road names new general manager
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:56 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1214
Location: Philadelphia, PA
RR Museum of PA is owned and operated by the Commonwealth of PA. In the hierarchy, RRMPA falls under the PA Museum and Historical Commission.

The management is historic preservation professionals, not politicians.

When the Museum learned what was needed to keep PRR E7s 7002 (ex-PCC&StL 8063) operational, they realized so much would need done the engine would no longer be the artifact PRR had retired in 1939. They put the kibosh on overhauling 7002 and added the provision that none of their other artifacts would be operated (including the replica John Bull, which is not the original 1832 engine, which is at the Smithsonian.

I'm sure ability of Strasburg R R across the street to provide the operating steam experiemce was a factor. It was unnecessary for the Commonwealth to do so.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Rail Road names new general manager
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:21 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6279
Location: southeastern USA
Overmod wrote:
Do I not recall that a certain K4 restoration was royally bollixed in no small part through government 'attention'?

Likewise a certain Eastern articulated?


And how many private nonprofit organizations have started then abandoned restoration projects and left them rusting in pieces for years after exceeding their knowledge, energy and level of commitment? There's no one magic framework to assure success. I think NPS did a great job building Jupiter and 119.......

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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Rail Road names new general manager
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:19 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1803
I agree thoroughly that "Government" attention is not uniformly troublesome. The issue I have is primarily that "their priorities are not our priorities" -- one of the problems with the 1309 restoration being that the grant required evidence that the money had been spent before the government would release it, something familiar to builders with 'draws' but not at all the way steam-locomotive restoration 'works' at present...

Part of the K4 problem was a certain amount of 'mission creep' -- they spent time carefully faking rivets in a stainless-steel tank, but couldn't figure out how to deal with a PRR-kludged boiler. Then there was official embarrassment over 'there's no telling where the money went'. Better understanding of the requirements associated with grants might be part of the required reading in our nascent best-practices manual...

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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Rail Road names new general manager
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:27 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:37 pm
Posts: 269
EJ Berry wrote:
They put the kibosh on overhauling 7002 and added the provision that none of their other artifacts would be operated (including the replica John Bull, which is not the original 1832 engine, which is at the Smithsonian.


No "non-operating" provision was ever put into place. That is completely false.

My recollection that 7002/1223 were placed on loan to SRC. When expensive boiler repairs became necessary, SRC did not want to spend funds on engines they did not own which is completely understandable. So they were returned to RRMPa in early 1990. It was PHMC's prerogative to not keep the engines in operable condition which at the time wasn't a priority--and still isn't. Since RRMPa's creation in the 1960s it has always been understood that RRMPa would play the role of an educational institution devoted to the interpretation and exhibition of railroad history, not as an operating tourist railroad, which was left for the Strasburg across the street to do. I think this has always been an understanding shared between both parties.

As for the "John Bull" replica, it last ran in September 1999 and was retired. This was chiefly because the new FRA steam rules that went into effect in 2001 required a different standard for lap seam boiler inspection which the RRMPa did not want the expensive burden of cutting/removing the tubes annually to do an interior boiler inspection especially if the engine was only steamed a few times a year. Also, I understand the frame is cracked from having been lifted by crane on one of its past off-site visits and one of the axles/bearings on either the engine or tender (I forget which) is bad requiring replacement. The RRMPa has other pressing priorities at present, financial and programmatic, and the JB replica is low on the list. I'm guessing it is because of finances.

K.R. Bell


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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Rail Road names new general manager
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:39 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 2251
Overmod wrote:
I agree thoroughly that "Government" attention is not uniformly troublesome. The issue I have is primarily that "their priorities are not our priorities" -- one of the problems with the 1309 restoration being that the grant required evidence that the money had been spent before the government would release it, something familiar to builders with 'draws' but not at all the way steam-locomotive restoration 'works' at present...

Part of the K4 problem was a certain amount of 'mission creep' -- they spent time carefully faking rivets in a stainless-steel tank, but couldn't figure out how to deal with a PRR-kludged boiler. Then there was official embarrassment over 'there's no telling where the money went'. Better understanding of the requirements associated with grants might be part of the required reading in our nascent best-practices manual...


The Maryland reimbursement policy in paragraph one eliminates the K4 funding embarrassment in paragraph two.

Wesley

Wesley


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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Rail Road names new general manager
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2408
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
To continue this threads hijacking.....the K4 saga was the text book example of the old saying " a little knowledge can be a VERY dangerous thing". The 2 men in Altoona who " micro managed " ( mangled would be a more accurate description) the project knew just enough to think they could call all the shots. That plus involving the Steamtown gov'. inefficiencies, plus involving the University of Scranton was the kiss of death from the get go.

Years later and with $ 3 million in Pa. taxpayer funds spent there she lay in a thousand pieces with the politician who raised most of the money thoroughly screwed ( he lost his subsequent campaign for re-election) and the project dead in the water.

Thanks to the miracle of 3 industry heavyweights deciding to rescue it,.... the K4 is now on its way to a happy ending and a return to service. Miracles do happen.

Fortunately the two clowns in Altoona are no longer in a position to cause another disaster.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Rail Road names new general manager
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 10897
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
K.R. Bell wrote:
My recollection that 7002/1223 were placed on loan to SRC. When expensive boiler repairs became necessary, SRC did not want to spend funds on engines they did not own which is completely understandable. So they were returned to RRMPa in early 1990.

Complicating matters is that the Strasburg technically leased 1223 from the PRR in 1962 or so, long before there was a RR Museum of Pa. involved. The PRR/PC rolling stock collection was not officially transferred to Commonwealth ownership until late 1979, as part of what was essentially a massive seizure of property for settlement of PC back taxes, as it was reported at the time.

It was reported that the Strasburg wanted "7002" to help stem a motive power shortage exacerbated by long-term repairs to 89. Of course, if you think PRR enthusiasm "across the street" had naught to do with the desire, you're probably kidding yourself. "7002" was allegedly in extremely good condition at the time, supposedly with tool marks from its last overhaul still present here and there.


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