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 Post subject: Winton, Cleveland, & EMD
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:40 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:35 pm
Posts: 100
The discussion about the Flying Yankee (and its Winton Engine reminded me of an interesting observation I made recently.

Not long ago I had the fortune of encountering a couple of similar engines. A Cleveland, and a Winton, both were V16 248 engines with one Roots blower. The manufacturer's tag on the Winton specified that the engine was to operate at 750 RPM and produced 1535 HP. I recall that the V16 567 EMD operates around 800- 835 rpm but, the HP rating was only ever 1800 at max for roots blown versions. What were the differences between the two?

I also seem to remember the Winton was the predecessor to the popular EMD engine. Does anyone have any information about the evolution of the Winton engine into the Clevelands and the EMDs of the later years?

Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Winton, Cleveland, & EMD
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:28 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am
Posts: 1870
Basic explanation of Winton, Cleveland, and EMC relationship is here:

http://www.rypn.org/articles/single.php ... 231209.txt

The article was condensed from a two-hour (NMRA double clinic) slide lecture program shown to interested groups in the East during 2000-2007. The program is no longer available. The topic was also covered in a program developed for a FYRG event 15 years ago, unfortunately the showing did not happen and the program is also no longer available.

The relationship between Winton and EMC is also covered in R&LHS Railroad History Issue #226 pages 24 through 45.

PC

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 Post subject: Re: Winton, Cleveland, & EMD
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:14 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1212
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Thanks, Preston.

The short version is the 201A was the original production engine for rail, marine and stationary uses. Problems arose and were solved. It soon became clear that the rail and marine/industrial applications had different requirements so the 567 for rail, from EMC, and the 248 for marine/industrial, from Winton and later Cleveland were developed. 567 is the displacement of each cylinder while 248 is the engine's place in the Winton line, and was slightly larger than the 567.

As an exception, in WWII, Cleveland production was fully booked and USN ordered about 2000 12-567's for LST's (Landing Ship Tank) which were essential for amphibious landings. Each LST had two 12-567's.

Early in WWII, Cleveland replaced the 248 with the larger 278A which powered Destroyer Escorts and Fleet Submarines, among combatants, and a number of Fleet Auxiliaries. To close the circle, in 1944-45, USN used 12-278A's to replace the 16-201A's in the surviving early 1930's subs.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: Winton, Cleveland, & EMD
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:09 pm
Posts: 538
More on Cleveland here:

https://vintagedieseldesign.com/clevela ... -division/

Here is a list of all production engines (Sorely needs to be updated, I have since filled in almost all of the holes).

https://vintagedieseldesign.com/2020/03 ... -the-list/

The engines pictured are the "spares/parts engines" that the USS Cod acquired from the Submarine Stingray that are stored. Cod has since stopped running their engines in the sub though unfortunately. Fireboat Fire Fighter has a pair of 248's that are run a few times a year, as they still get underway, but they are tired.

A minor correction, the 278 came in-between the 248 and 278A, although not many were built. There is still a few of the 278A engines that repowered those 201 fleet subs running in tugs owned by Great Lakes Towing, who is the last major user of 278 family engines left.

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 Post subject: Re: Winton, Cleveland, & EMD
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1212
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Right you are. The 278 was an improvement on the 248 and the 278A had a 1/4" greater bore than the 248 and 278. The Navy got mostly 278A's.

All 201A, 567, 248, 278 and 278A are 2-stroke cycle uniflow scavenged (by a roots blower) with ported intake and poppet exhaust vaves.

Bore and Stroke:

201A: 8" x 10"
567: 8 1/2" x 10"
248 + 278: 8 1/2" x 10 1/2"
278A: 8 1/2" x 10 3/4"

La Grange was railroad only; 567's for marine/industrial service were built at La Grange, then sent to Cleveland to be completed for their non-rail service.

Good to hear there are still 278A's out there earning their keep.

Phil Mulligan


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