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 Post subject: Re: Passing/Accident at TVRM: George Walker
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:38 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2875
Tragic story, and a reminder of the need to be serious about safety.

Given that this was a fatality incident, the $12K fine seems quite reasonable. Sounds like the fact they had fall protection gear on site etc. helped their cause and resulted in a fairly low fine. In cases where there's a demonstrated disregard for safety, I've seen much higher fines.


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 Post subject: Re: Passing/Accident at TVRM: George Walker
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:10 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:55 pm
Posts: 985
Location: Warren, PA
The organization has been pretty quiet about this, out of necessity, and of great respect to their member. That's not trying to hide anything, it's just the way it had to be.

But also against that is a necessary review of 'what the heck happened?' and for other organizations to take note and learn from it. That applies across a lot of issues where the challenge of 'don't say anything' vs. 'we need to help our peers learn from this' comes into play.

I think TVRM has had to walk the tightrope here on this one, and there's certainly nothing there except a tremendous sense of loss of a valued member, and a need to learn and move on.


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 Post subject: Re: Passing/Accident at TVRM: George Walker
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 6:10 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1477
One of the things we can learn from this accident is to utilize employees in the best way possible. This job should have probably been done by roofing specialists who are aware of the hazards of working at such heights.

Don’t put yourself or employees / volunteers in danger in order to save some $$$ - they are much too valuable.

(I’m not criticizing anyone involved in this, just pointing out an important lesson).


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 Post subject: Re: Passing/Accident at TVRM: George Walker
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 12:44 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1543
Without getting into the personal details of this accident, it certainly does raise questions about skylights. Generally, I find that skylights are not considered capable of supporting a person. I suppose they could be made out of a strong enough material to support a person, but still, it seems unlikely that a person would have a need to be on top of one, and also, it might scratch the translucent material, or possibly disrupt the waterproof connection to the roof.

I believe a great danger of being on roofs is losing situational awareness by focusing on close-up detailed work. This can cause a person to momentarily forget where the edge is, if it is behind them.

Some skylights are convex upward, plus they are mounted with the base on a tall curbing. So they will always be conspicuous, and will even offer some degree of fencing effect if someone were to get too close to them.

Heavy snow can completely obscure a skylight even if it is tall. However some are made of flat translucent panels installed flush with the roof deck. In my opinion, these should have handrails with fencing features around them. I wonder if this is ever done, or possibly required.

I know someone who fell through a skylight in the very low pitch of a shed roof that was about 13 ft. high. This was one of those flush, flat plastic panels. He was on the roof with some others and they were clearing snow off the roof. The skylight was completely hidden in the snow. It was a booby-trap. Fortunately he survived the fall, but that required a long recovery.


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 Post subject: Re: Passing/Accident at TVRM: George Walker
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:40 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:21 pm
Posts: 167
Thanks for posting the link to the article. Lessons to be learned for sure. We all should take a look at our individual programs and reflect on what we can do better for enhanced Safety.

Eric


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 Post subject: Re: Passing/Accident at TVRM: George Walker
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:47 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2875
Randy Gustafson wrote:
But also against that is a necessary review of 'what the heck happened?' and for other organizations to take note and learn from it.


Everything you need to learn from it is right here:
Quote:
Citation 2 states the employees were walking and working with an unprotected side or edge that was 6 feet or more above a lower level and were not protected by use of a guardrail system, safety net or personal fall arrest systems.

Citation 3 states the employees were also not protected while working from falling through the skylights by personal fall arrest systems, covers or guardrails erected around them. The fine for the third citation is $5,400.


Those are the pertinent and relevant facts, as determined in the investigation. Exactly how and why that happened isn't relevant to any other organization. Only what they failed to do properly.


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 Post subject: Re: Passing/Accident at TVRM: George Walker
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:54 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2213
Quote:
"Exactly how and why that happened isn't relevant to any other organization. Only what they failed to do properly."

I think you are missing the big and important lesson here.

This organization had an extensive and probably carefully-documented fall-protection system in place, with 'numerous' pieces of appropriate PPE all over. (Someone has already posted that this was a 'mitigating factor' in the fines that were imposed).

The moral of the story is that fall protection was not implemented OUTSIDE the shop... and we all should recognize that if we're working on the building and not just on equipment, we need to set up fall protection THERE, and use it according to shop discipline. If it costs extra money to rig the eaves and the area around skylights to prevent slides and falls, or simply rig nets under the roof opening capable of holding workers and tools... spend the money. It's a wake-up call, not a blamefest pile-on.

_________________
R.M.Ellsworth


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 Post subject: Re: Passing/Accident at TVRM: George Walker
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:08 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2875
Overmod wrote:
Quote:
"Exactly how and why that happened isn't relevant to any other organization. Only what they failed to do properly."

I think you are missing the big and important lesson here.

This organization had an extensive and probably carefully-documented fall-protection system in place, with 'numerous' pieces of appropriate PPE all over. (Someone has already posted that this was a 'mitigating factor' in the fines that were imposed).

The moral of the story is that fall protection was not implemented OUTSIDE the shop... and we all should recognize that if we're working on the building and not just on equipment, we need to set up fall protection THERE, and use it according to shop discipline.


Not missing that at all. The parts of the investigation I quoted stated they failed to use fall protection. That's the important bit. Why it didn't happen at this organization doesn't affect your organization. Lack of money? Improper planning? Lack of training? Lack of awareness? Lack of personal responsibility? All potential causes that should be considered when creating your venue's fall safety plan. But... The reason it happened in this case doesn't really change what needs to happen at your venue.

I still feel the important detail is lack of proper fall protection. Why that happened is a "one off" situation. Your program needs to cover all the bases.


Last edited by Bobharbison on Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Passing/Accident at TVRM: George Walker
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:16 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 705
Speaking only to my very limited experience and personal knowledge, it seems to me that the most times I have damaged something, made something worse, injured myself, or had one of those "holy crap I can't believe I just did that it could have been bad" moments has been when I expanded the original scope of my work. I figured out what I wanted to do, planned my work, and made sure I had the most appropriate tools/gear on hand for the job. Then it goes real well and I say, "Well, while I'm here and have more time than I thought, I can do this also." It may be a longer than safe reach or I don't have the exact tool or safety gear, but I have things on hand from the other work, so I just do it. To avoid this, I now remove myself from the work and take a break to give myself time to think the new "next step" through and make sure I have the best gear for the new job before I dive back in.

Again, only reflecting on my own personal experiences in screwing the pooch here as a general suggestion for workplace safety. Not saying it is related in any way to the event that is the subject matter of this thread. I have no idea why this extremely unfortunate and sad accident occurred.


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 Post subject: Re: Passing/Accident at TVRM: George Walker
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2023 10:31 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:20 am
Posts: 3
Location: Michigan
Another story, a month late

https://www.local3news.com/local-news/t ... d5dbd.html


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