It is currently Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:56 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: A Deltic is Back on the British Main Line
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:37 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11501
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Kelly Anderson wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
When the units were retired, the DPS undertook even more fundraising to acquire every possible spare part it could muster
I respect the accomplishment in returning an obsolete diesel to service (In many ways diesels are way more difficult to restore than steam engines.). But when acquiring parts, it's too bad that they couldn't acquire an E8 body from the US. Purely my opinion, but that is one butt-ugly diesel!


That is several degrees less rational than asking American would-be preservationists to acquire a Deltic body to run in the USA. At least a Deltic could FIT the North American loading gauge!

The reality is that British rail preservationists, with a smaller country and a then-nationalised rail network, have far outdone American preservationists when it comes to preservation of specific classes of diesel. If we matched the British, there would be a fleet of F40PHs for excursion duty nationwide, four PRR E8s with HEP would be in preserved charter operation, short lines and excursion operations would be renting preserved diesels for short-term use or mainline charters, twin Alco PAs would have run up both Cajon Pass and the D&H, and SMS Services would be fundraising to kitbash an Argentinian Baldwin passenger loco into either a "Baby Face" or a Shark!

And yes, rebuilding a Deltic is several degrees more complex than restoring a steamer. The joke is "you restore a steamer with a hammer and torch; you restore a diesel with a truckload of tools and electrical equipment!"

Image


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Deltic is Back on the British Main Line
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:06 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
Posts: 640
Location: Ipswich, UK
I've seen several mentions over the years that the prototype Deltic (DP1) was originally supposed to go to Canada for a demonstration tour in the 1950's but have yet to see anything concrete to back those suggestions up.
Canada would certainly have been more likely than a tour to the US by that date.

_________________
My Flikr page https://www.flickr.com/photos/72399068@N08/sets


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Deltic is Back on the British Main Line
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:33 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3916
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
The reality is that British rail preservationists, with a smaller country and a then-nationalised rail network, have far outdone American preservationists when it comes to preservation of specific classes of diesel. If we matched the British, there would be a fleet of F40PHs for excursion duty nationwide, four PRR E8s with HEP would be in preserved charter operation, short lines and excursion operations would be renting preserved diesels for short-term use or mainline charters, twin Alco PAs would have run up both Cajon Pass and the D&H, and SMS Services would be fundraising to kitbash an Argentinian Baldwin passenger loco into either a "Baby Face" or a Shark!

And yes, rebuilding a Deltic is several degrees more complex than restoring a steamer. The joke is "you restore a steamer with a hammer and torch; you restore a diesel with a truckload of tools and electrical equipment!"


Not mentioned by Mr. Mitchell--and I'm a bit surprised it wasn't--was how the Brits have also managed to really outdo us in steam preservation, including mainline operations and even restoration of abandoned lines. I tell you, some of what they've managed to do is simply amazing--and puts our puny efforts to shame.

Part of it, at least in my opinion, is that the nationalized system wasn't and isn't afraid of passenger trains, it wasn't and isn't so concerned with the bottom line (or at least it recognizes, after the disaster that was Beeching, that an overfocus on the bottom line is harmful to the enterprise), and that the nationalized system sought out rail enthusiasts for hiring (this was in the 1970s) because they needed people who were enthusiastic about railways, who needed that enthusiasm to be better employees and to make the system better. Keep in mind, the British rail system was under assault, like our own, as being part of the past, and the future was supposed to be cars, cars, cars.

Compare all this with main line railroads here that don't like passenger trains, don't like steam, discourage "foamers," and don't even like freight customers, having cut so much they have to turn away business!

I think this country, and its hyper capitalist economy, has some serious issues that really need addressing.

Just don't fall for the backers of the questionable status quo to try to use "socialism" or "Communism" as scare words, as the late president Harry S. Truman warned against in 1952--and from the platform of the Ferdinand Magellan. (And there's a railroad connection! Gotta have a little fun once in a while!)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Deltic is Back on the British Main Line
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 5:18 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2573
Location: Strasburg, PA
J3a-614 wrote:
...the Brits have also managed to really outdo us in steam preservation, including mainline operations and even restoration of abandoned lines. I tell you, some of what they've managed to do is simply amazing--and puts our puny efforts to shame...
I understand that the British have a national lottery whose proceeds go to historic preservation. Realizing that railroad preservation is only a tiny part of the historic preservation universe that is clamoring for funds, but just the same, it must be nice...


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Deltic is Back on the British Main Line
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:02 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11501
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Kelly Anderson wrote:
J3a-614 wrote:
...the Brits have also managed to really outdo us in steam preservation, including mainline operations and even restoration of abandoned lines. I tell you, some of what they've managed to do is simply amazing--and puts our puny efforts to shame...
I understand that the British have a national lottery whose proceeds go to historic preservation. Realizing that railroad preservation is only a tiny part of the historic preservation universe that is clamoring for funds, but just the same, it must be nice...


American wannabe-preservationists routinely greatly exaggerate the impact of the National Heritage Lottery grant program.

"Hey, we got it made--we American rail preservationists have that John Emery Rail Heritage Trust to pay for everything!"

"We have a NATIONAL RAILROAD PARK called the Steamtown National Historic Site! What else do we need?"

"We're so lucky state governments underwrite railroad preservation! Look at Cass! Look at the Cumbres & Toltec! Look at the museums in Strasburg, Spencer, and Sacramento! They even have NATIONAL railroad museums--three, St. Louis, Green Bay, and Hamlet, N.C.!"

Don't those comments sound stupid and misinformed? Don't they absolutely insult all the fine and difficult work that goes into independent, volunteer-run museums and preservation operations everywhere?
Well, that's how insulting it is to whip out "Heritage Lottery" every time someone contrasts American and British rail preservation. You might as well suggest that because many American states have lotteries, there isn't any poverty in those states..........

Heritage Lottery grants have made a big difference in some major projects in UK rail preservation. But, trust me, no one in the US, UK, or elsewhere starts a rail preservation project while counting on "Mr. Moneybags" to come waltzing in to pay for it all--with the possible exception of Scranton's Rep. Joseph McDade and Steamtown..........


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Deltic is Back on the British Main Line
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:35 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2573
Location: Strasburg, PA
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
wannabe-preservationists
I'll have you know that I am not a wannabe-preservationist, I am a has-been hack artist, and don't you forget it!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Deltic is Back on the British Main Line
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11501
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Kelly Anderson wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
wannabe-preservationists
I'll have you know that I am not a wannabe-preservationist, I am a has-been hack artist, and don't you forget it!

And yet, you still haven't followed up on actually LEARNING what the Heritage Lottery REALLY entails......

https://www.heritagefund.org.uk/

Find the railroad projects listed here. Go ahead. (Or, more to the point, look at all the competition.)

https://www.heritagefund.org.uk/news/mo ... -across-uk


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 312 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: