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| The End To Slam-Door Open Window Rolling Stock On UK Mains? http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47768 |
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| Author: | kew [ Mon Dec 04, 2023 9:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End To Slam-Door Open Window Rolling Stock On UK Mai |
PMC wrote: Could someone post a photo of these cars showing the doors in question? I'm not quite clear on what the issue is. From 12,000 miles away I think the issue is doors that are hinged to open outward and are not centrally locked while the train is moving. See https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/slam-door-carriage.html?sortBy=relevant for some examples on British stock. We also have them here in Australia (eg Canberra Railway Museum's HCX632 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygD_4ssC9Yg), but I haven't seen any used on heritage trains for many years. |
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| Author: | PaulWWoodring [ Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End To Slam-Door Open Window Rolling Stock On UK Mai |
JimBoylan wrote: Amfleet II passenger cars were originally built with side vestibule doors with plastic windows that could be lowered. Are you saying that they have since sealed those windows? The conductors used those opening windows to catch orders from any tower or temporary operator stations. When I was a new LSA on the Capitol Ltd. my first year at Amtrak in the mid-'80s I persuaded the Cumberland conductor to let me catch the order fork at a temporary order station. It might have been Confluence, PA, on the return train, #440 (this was when the Cap was still a section of the Broadway west of Pittsburgh and the Amfleet II diner/lounge was the last car that only ran from DC to Pittsburgh). I HAD to catch the orders, so embarrassing questions would not be asked as to why the cafe attendant was doing that and missed? |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Dec 04, 2023 11:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End To Slam-Door Open Window Rolling Stock On UK Mai |
A couple selected shots from an internet search: Electric commuter MU of the Southern Region:  Mark III's, the generation of the HST: https://www.alamy.com/open-slam-doors-o ... 87358.html one of the actual West Coast Railways carriages in question: https://c8.alamy.com/comp/P432NW/oxenho ... P432NW.jpg https://www.flickr.com/photos/183871373 ... otostream/ https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/incoming/ga ... ld-4747031 |
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| Author: | PMC [ Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End To Slam-Door Open Window Rolling Stock On UK Mai |
I see, what's the logic behind a design with so many doors to maintain? Presumably there's no center passage also, and no restrooms? |
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| Author: | 70000 [ Tue Dec 05, 2023 4:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End To Slam-Door Open Window Rolling Stock On UK Mai |
PMC wrote: I see, what's the logic behind a design with so many doors to maintain? Presumably there's no center passage also, and no restrooms? For the multiple door ones ones, used on commuter service, it sped up boarding/alighting from the train at stations. No doubt you can find film on YouTube somewhere of trains arriving at the main London Termini up the the 1980's where swarms of passengers were getting off while the trains were still moving along the platforms, which used to happen when they got to around 6 mph or less! The inner suburban stock generally used around London in the past and built up to around 1960 were individual compartments, seating 6-8 people, with no corridor/centre passage or restrooms. Post that date there was a move to ones with a centre passage and the individual compartment layout was dispensed with (apart from 1st Class), but a large number of doors were retained for boarding/alighting. From the mid 1970's it went to sliding doors and fully open plan cars. |
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| Author: | 484Mike [ Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End To Slam-Door Open Window Rolling Stock On UK Mai |
I wonder in how far those museum railways as the KWVR or the NYMR are concerned by this. The latter at least has an arrangement which allows them to go on "state tracks" to Whitby. Mike |
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| Author: | 70000 [ Fri Dec 22, 2023 11:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End To Slam-Door Open Window Rolling Stock On UK Mai |
WCRC have lost their challenge to the ruling..... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-67804969 Full legal details of the rejection... https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ad ... /3338.html |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sat Dec 23, 2023 10:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End To Slam-Door Open Window Rolling Stock On UK Mai |
More press coverage: https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... -reaction/ “What next, handrails for walkers up Ben Nevis (highest mountain in Scotland] and all swimmers required to wear life jackets?” https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/240 ... or-ruling/ Quote: The operator of the Jacobite steam train that featured in the Harry Potter films has said it may appeal a High Court decision that "threatens the future" of the popular tourist attraction.
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| Author: | JimBoylan [ Sat Dec 23, 2023 7:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End To Slam-Door Open Window Rolling Stock On UK Mai |
The Court's decision was not a ban on cars with swinging side doors, just a denial of permission to use them with revenue passengers unless those doors are locked and interlocked from a central place on the train. The justices mentioned that the cost of installing centrally controlled locking mechanisms could be covered by increasing fares approximately 22%. Other operators with either higher fares or lower profits are already in the process of installing. |
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| Author: | Overmod [ Sat Dec 23, 2023 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End To Slam-Door Open Window Rolling Stock On UK Mai |
This arrangement was used in the United States, for example during the Columbian Exposition in 1893 and on stock for the Fall River Boat Train in the late 1880s. Both these were dedicated services where very rapid emptying followed by very quick boarding was an important advantage. You had platforms on either side. The time for 'everypne' on the transverse bench seats to get out through the 'slam door' on one side could be measured in seconds, with no difficulty with congestion getting off the train. As soon as a given compartment was empty, the door on the other side could be opened and boarding commenced. Conductors could easily ensure the doors were safely 'slammed' Obviously ticket-taking was best done by or at platform access, not on board the train... this was not as much of an issue for the Fall River Line as the train served a 'captive destination', and a turnstile form of platform access as for subways would work for 'exposition' traffic... |
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| Author: | 70000 [ Fri Jan 12, 2024 2:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End To Slam-Door Open Window Rolling Stock On UK Mai |
The exemption for West Coast to operate non central door locking fitted passenger cars has now been revoked...... https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/fi ... r-wcrc.pdf |
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| Author: | PMC [ Thu Jan 18, 2024 5:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End To Slam-Door Open Window Rolling Stock On UK Mai |
A recap of the issue in Trains magazine: https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... ter-train/ |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Mar 20, 2024 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The End To Slam-Door Open Window Rolling Stock On UK Mai |
West Coast Railways suspends the trains: https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... or-safety/ |
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