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 Post subject: C&LC/Michigan
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:48 am 

Since a lot of us here are "into" the 1960s steam tourist railways, I was especially teary-eyed to drive between Cadillac and Lake City in Michigan. Anyone have any stories about this one... how it got started, what it did and how it came to an end. Looks like its lifespan was 1963-1976, so that's not a flash in the pan.

http://nctrans.org
Wrinnbo@aol.com


  
 
 Post subject: Re: C&LC/Michigan
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 5:36 pm 

> Anyone
> have any stories about this one... how it
> got started, what it did and how it came to
> an end. Looks like its lifespan was
> 1963-1976, so that's not a flash in the pan.

Jim,

I recall one of the principals of the company wrote a feature for TRAINS, probably around 1968, that detailed the start up of the C&LC.

Alan Maples

AMaples@aol.com


  
 
 Post subject: C&LC Steam: Remember This One?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:00 pm 

Here's one from the K.R. Bell Tourist Railroad History Archives: How many on this board remember Steamtown Foundation's ex-CPR Pacific No. 127 when it was leased to the C&LC briefly during the early 1970's? Any photos worthy of sharing here?

> Since a lot of us here are "into"
> the 1960s steam tourist railways, I was
> especially teary-eyed to drive between
> Cadillac and Lake City in Michigan. Anyone
> have any stories about this one... how it
> got started, what it did and how it came to
> an end. Looks like its lifespan was
> 1963-1976, so that's not a flash in the pan.


  
 
 Post subject: Re: C&LC Steam: Remember This One?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:10 pm 

> Here's one from the K.R. Bell Tourist
> Railroad History Archives: How many on this
> board remember Steamtown Foundation's ex-CPR
> Pacific No. 127 when it was leased to the
> C&LC briefly during the early 1970's?
> Any photos worthy of sharing here?

I remember seeing a photo of the 127 on the C&LC in Trains Magazine while it was there. I never saw the railroad but did finally see the 1278 after it went to the Gettysburg Railroad.

John

jhbohon@yahoo.com


  
 
 Post subject: Re: C&LC Steam: Remember This One?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:11 pm 

The C&LC was the first railroad I ever worked for.
Definitely a hard scrabble operation, it was good training for railroading on a frayed shoestring.

Although hired to work in the ex-ATSF lunch counter diner, I also wore other hats. One small footnote, there were three of us that made up the section crew, we all became shortline railroad presidents...

Originally all steam, starting with an 0-4-0 (now in Madison, SD, and later a logging 2-8-2, plus a leased wood-burning 4-6-0 (now in Hooper, Neb)and the aforementioned CP 1278, the Diesel era arrived in the form of the B-71, a 1930 Westinghouse (now in Minnesota). It was later joined by ex-CUT #25, a 750 hp Lima, owned by an employee and now at the Whitewater Valley. Freight was normally handled by the Diesels although I did have occasion to work as a brakeman with the 127 in freight service.

The operation was in the wrong place, the folks who put it together wanted to purchase the PRR's Traverse City branch and tap the large tourist market. PRR did not care to sell that line, but as related to me, said, "There is another line in the area we would be willing to sell". Hence the location where the tourists weren't.

Lots of fond memories, this was the place that corrupted me so throughly I stayed in the shortline business.



dsrc512@sd.value.net


  
 
 Post subject: Re: C&LC Steam: Remember This One?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 11:31 pm 

After the C&LC Michigan operation folded, the company moved west and operated a piece of the former Rock Island east from Limon, CO using primarily a pair of ex-ATSF CF-7's. They operated both freight and passengers on that line, which did not last very long. Some good material on this line in the book "CF-7's, from Cleburne to Everywhere".

jamoore@elko.net


  
 
 Post subject: Re: C&LC equipment disposition ?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 10:50 am 

> The C&LC was the first railroad I ever
> worked for.
> Definitely a hard scrabble operation, it was
> good training for railroading on a frayed
> shoestring.

> Although hired to work in the ex-ATSF lunch
> counter diner, I also wore other hats. One
> small footnote, there were three of us that
> made up the section crew, we all became
> shortline railroad presidents...

> Originally all steam, starting with an 0-4-0
> (now in Madison, SD, and later a logging
> 2-8-2, plus a leased wood-burning 4-6-0 (now
> in Hooper, Neb)and the aforementioned CP
> 1278, the Diesel era arrived in the form of
> the B-71, a 1930 Westinghouse (now in
> Minnesota). It was later joined by ex-CUT
> #25, a 750 hp Lima, owned by an employee and
> now at the Whitewater Valley. Freight was
> normally handled by the Diesels although I
> did have occasion to work as a brakeman with
> the 127 in freight service.

Alex:

Thanks for the rundown of dispositions on C&LC motive power. The 2-8-2, I believe, is now at Mid-Continent in North Freedom and is one of the steamers that that group is trying to restore to service.

But what about the other equipment on the line? There were a number of passenger cars from the Chicago & Western Indiana (mostly Stillwells but also an ex-Chicago & Alton heavyweight.) Did these coaches go to Colorado? Or elsewhere? Or were they eventually scrapped in Michigan? And didn't the C&LC also have a caboose too?

> The operation was in the wrong place, the
> folks who put it together wanted to purchase
> the PRR's Traverse City branch and tap the
> large tourist market. PRR did not care to
> sell that line, but as related to me, said,
> "There is another line in the area we
> would be willing to sell". Hence the
> location where the tourists weren't.

> Lots of fond memories, this was the place
> that corrupted me so throughly I stayed in
> the shortline business.


midlandblb@cs.com


  
 
 Post subject: Re: C&LC equipment disposition ? *PIC*
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:56 pm 

I had always heard the one of the cabooses was an an ex-Pere Marquette Caboose A500 series, which later became Port Huron & Detroit #52, and then was rumored to have gone to the C&LC I believe. It is now on display in Brimley, Michigan. Alex might be able to confirm if it indeed had a C&LC past.

TJ Gaffney

> Alex:

> Thanks for the rundown of dispositions on
> C&LC motive power. The 2-8-2, I believe,
> is now at Mid-Continent in North Freedom and
> is one of the steamers that that group is
> trying to restore to service.

> But what about the other equipment on the
> line? There were a number of passenger cars
> from the Chicago & Western Indiana
> (mostly Stillwells but also an ex-Chicago
> & Alton heavyweight.) Did these coaches
> go to Colorado? Or elsewhere? Or were they
> eventually scrapped in Michigan? And didn't
> the C&LC also have a caboose too?


Port Huron Museum
Image
tjgaffney@phmuseum.org


  
 
 Post subject: C&LC went west from Limon
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 4:04 pm 

The "new" C&LC went west from Limon, not east. This was the Colorado Springs branch of the Rock Island, noted for the unusual AB6 units that powered the train to and from the Springs after the train split at Limon. Because of some trackage rights problems, C&LC never operated all the way into Colorado Springs, only between Falcon and Limon. After C&LC folded in the early 1990s, the track was removed and a trail effort was mounted, but defeated by local ranchers. I believe the C&LC's principal organizer (in both Michigan and Colorado) is still around and involved with the Pikes Peak trolley group. Incidently, there is still an isolated piece of the old RI track east of the Springs that they occasionally run motorcars on. The former C&S Budd observation "Silver Bowl" (Texas Zephyr) is stored on this track.

> After the C&LC Michigan operation
> folded, the company moved west and operated
> a piece of the former Rock Island east from
> Limon, CO using primarily a pair of ex-ATSF
> CF-7's. They operated both freight and
> passengers on that line, which did not last
> very long. Some good material on this line
> in the book "CF-7's, from Cleburne to
> Everywhere".


Rocky Mountain Rocket - 1943
ryarger@rypn.org


  
 
 Post subject: Re: C&LC equipment disposition ?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 11:01 pm 

Somewhere I have paperwork put out by the BCG&A giving out the history of their equipment from around 1971-72. If I recall correctly the C&LC bough a caboose from the BCG&A around 1965 only to have the BCG&A buy it back from them around 1970. That should be the caboose that's now near Kalamazoo, MI.

davelecount@juno.com


  
 
 Post subject: Re: C&LC equipment disposition ?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 3:44 pm 

> Somewhere I have paperwork put out by the
> BCG&A giving out the history of their
> equipment from around 1971-72. If I recall
> correctly the C&LC bough a caboose from
> the BCG&A around 1965 only to have the
> BCG&A buy it back from them around 1970.
> That should be the caboose that's now near
> Kalamazoo, MI.

Dave:

Thanks. How's the restoration of that caboose coming by the way?

Les


midlandblb@cs.com


  
 
 Post subject: Re: C&LC equipment disposition ?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:25 pm 

> Dave:

> Thanks. How's the restoration of that
> caboose coming by the way?

> Les

I wouldn't know. Last Spring several weeks before I was to make the transition from VP to President I resigned because I got tired of the lack of participation. Recereation night at the local Senior Center probably saw more action that a typical Monday night meeting.

Tha last I had heard before I resigned was that they were going to paint the caboose a generic red color and try to use a BCG&A hearld that was never used on the caboose. Even though I had access to pictures of it in both revenue and tourist service no one listened.

I still remember your invitation to visit sometime. Hectic year this year but I'll try my best next year.

davelecount@juno.com


  
 
 Post subject: Re: C&LC equipment disposition ?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:37 pm 

Herewith a sketchy list of equipment dispostions;
First a correction of my earlier post, the 4-6-0 I reported is actually a 2-6-2.

Display rotary snowplow, to museum at Duluth

Display ex-DT&I steam hook, scrapped on site.

Two ex-C&WI Stilwells - to Rockford, MI parallel to GR&I/PRR/PC/MIGN for a Lionel/American Flyer, etc display, later a used bookstore. Still there?

One ex-C&WI Stilwell, in a field north of Fife Lake, MI for years, was to be a summer cottage? Resurrected and used on a short-lived Diesel powered excursion between Petoskey and Alanson, MI. Further dispostion unknown to me.

C&WI wreckmaster's car. Think drover caboose without cupola. Used as ticket office, believed scrapped on site.

ex-ATSF Budd lunch counter diner - to Algoma Central.

ex-IC snack bar coach - to Algoma Central.

two Osgood-Bradley coaches - to Whitewater Valley?

ex-ATSF steel combine w/kerosene lamps. Leased out one winter to Boyne City RR, later sold and ended up as part of a restaurant and later scrapped I believe.

ex-C&A heavyweight parlor car. Not used due to its weight, was sold to ? and shipped out.

two-early MILW lightweight coaches. Sold along with the B-71 to a stillborn excursion at Jonesville, MI. One was damaged by a vandal set fire. Used on the C&LC only during fall color trips when anything that would roll was pressed into service. Did either or both cars go to the Little River RR at Coldwater, MI/Angola, IN?

ex-AA wooden reefer. Scrapped on site? was actually used for ice storage for the diner the first summer I worked there. C&LC was the ice company's last customer which took 300# cakes.

Cabooses - there were several, three (two ex-GTW, one ex-CV) were privately owned by the same individual who owned the Lima Diesel. His recollection is that one, plus an ex-M&LS (AA) caboose were parked on display track adjacent to the main line near Sapphire Lake (west of Lake City)by lining track over to make a temporary connection. An earlier post covered the ex-BC,G&A caboose. My memory is that there was at least one other privately owned caboose on the line. Don't know what happened to the others.

Oddities I didn't know about. In the early days when the only power was steam, the C&LC would trip lease a Diesel on occasion from PRR. Would you believe single A units running backward as necessary?.

dsrc512@sd.value.net


  
 
 Post subject: Re: C&LC equipment disposition ?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:20 am 

Sadly, I still have 31 shares of stock in the C&LC. They sent us a letter after the first year in Colorado telling us how things were looking up. Needless to say, I never heard another word. At least the certificate is attractive!


  
 
 Post subject: Re: C&LC equipment disposition ?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:58 am 

> Herewith a sketchy list of equipment
> dispostions;
> First a correction of my earlier post, the
> 4-6-0 I reported is actually a 2-6-2.

> Display rotary snowplow, to museum at Duluth

> Display ex-DT&I steam hook, scrapped on
> site.

> Two ex-C&WI Stilwells - to Rockford, MI
> parallel to GR&I/PRR/PC/MIGN for a
> Lionel/American Flyer, etc display, later a
> used bookstore. Still there?

> One ex-C&WI Stilwell, in a field north
> of Fife Lake, MI for years, was to be a
> summer cottage? Resurrected and used on a
> short-lived Diesel powered excursion between
> Petoskey and Alanson, MI. Further dispostion
> unknown to me.

> C&WI wreckmaster's car. Think drover
> caboose without cupola. Used as ticket
> office, believed scrapped on site.

> ex-ATSF Budd lunch counter diner - to Algoma
> Central.

> ex-IC snack bar coach - to Algoma Central.

> two Osgood-Bradley coaches - to Whitewater
> Valley?

> ex-ATSF steel combine w/kerosene lamps.
> Leased out one winter to Boyne City RR,
> later sold and ended up as part of a
> restaurant and later scrapped I believe.

> ex-C&A heavyweight parlor car. Not used
> due to its weight, was sold to ? and shipped
> out.

> two-early MILW lightweight coaches. Sold
> along with the B-71 to a stillborn excursion
> at Jonesville, MI. One was damaged by a
> vandal set fire. Used on the C&LC only
> during fall color trips when anything that
> would roll was pressed into service. Did
> either or both cars go to the Little River
> RR at Coldwater, MI/Angola, IN?

> ex-AA wooden reefer. Scrapped on site? was
> actually used for ice storage for the diner
> the first summer I worked there. C&LC
> was the ice company's last customer which
> took 300# cakes.

> Cabooses - there were several, three (two
> ex-GTW, one ex-CV) were privately owned by
> the same individual who owned the Lima
> Diesel. His recollection is that one, plus
> an ex-M&LS (AA) caboose were parked on
> display track adjacent to the main line near
> Sapphire Lake (west of Lake City)by lining
> track over to make a temporary connection.
> An earlier post covered the ex-BC,G&A
> caboose. My memory is that there was at
> least one other privately owned caboose on
> the line. Don't know what happened to the
> others.

> Oddities I didn't know about. In the early
> days when the only power was steam, the
> C&LC would trip lease a Diesel on
> occasion from PRR. Would you believe single
> A units running backward as necessary?.

Alex:

Wow! Thanks for all the info (and the earlier
report on motive power dispositions.) It may take me a while to ingest all of this latest info. It's amazing to me that a "little line" like the C&LC operation in Michigan, which was not in business that long, had as much equipment on their property as they apparently did. Any authors out there that could write a book?

Les

midlandblb@cs.com


  
 
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