The problem with saving the facilities in Pen Argyl is that there are many rail projects going in Pennsylvania already. There is only so much money to go around and there is so much left to do. You have major museums at Steamtown, Alttona, and Strasburg, a major effort needed at the EBT. There are smaller efforts like the Ma&Pa folks at Muddy Creek Forks and other fine groups like the Reading Tech & Historic Society all trying to raise dollars and save something.<p>I hate to see any steam era part of railroading lost but I always remember you can't win em all. This comes from someone who has seen two roundhouses torn down in his hometown of Wilmington, Delaware.<br>

I've been watching the debate sparked by the Redondo news for a week now, but waited a bit to weigh in.<p>Some thoughts: roundhouses and backshops are among the toughest candidates for preservation. They are extremely large; have a bad habit of being located in the middle of active railyards owned by liability-conscious private companies; generally have been allowed to deteriorate extremely before being declared surplus; commonly (though not universally) have contamination abatement issues; and in general are VERY expensive to stabilize, restore, and operate (light, heat, keep in good repair) once restored, and therefore require either government support or a substantial potential "customer base" or both to be viable attractions.<p>In short, we can conclude that it takes deep pockets and very careful planning to make a go of a big, sprawling preservation site like a roundhouse. This is one reason why the groups which have done it in a big way (Steamtown, Spencer) have such complicated agendas: to get the funds, they have had to reach out to broad constiutencies and make compromises along the way.<p>That said I agree that so far, with the possible exception of Steamtown, we have no single roundhouse/backshop complex devoted solely to interpreting the railroad repair and reconstruction trades and environment. So the question is, if we want such a thing, how will we go about doing it?<p>I open the floor for nominations for candidates, but unlike Bob I would impose certain strict conditions:<p>1. The facility has to be near a dense enogh customer base to support it (ie near one or hopefully more major urban areas or Interstates)<p>2. There should be sufficient relevant locomotives and stock of the appropriate road available to support a viable suite of display equipment<p>3. There should be a reasonable possibility of acquiring the structure from the current owner (roundhouses located in the middle of very active locomotive terminals need not apply: do we really want to say to the railroads 'quit running trains and servicing engines here so we can preserve the way they used to run trains and service engines here?')<p>4. It should not be in an area already saturated with competing rail preservation attractions. There are only so many volunteers and so much money to go around.<p>5. Any abatement issues should be modest enough that they will not soak up massive amounts of funds<p>That said, I ask you all to name some candidates. Hagerstown met most of these criteria, but it foundered on local political inertia and opposition. Let's here about some more. If we can identify some, then we can get started on mobilizing a group, doing some back of the envelope financial feasibility calculations, and making some long-term plans. <p>The only way this will happen is through legwork, advance planning, and careful preparation. It cannot be done at the 11th hour; sometimes it can't be done at the ninth or tenth, as the Hagerstown group discovered to our sorrow.<p>So let's get out in front for a change. And let's be serious about what it takes to do this. If we follow Bob's criteria and rule out adaptive reuse as a preservation strategy, and multi-purpose museums as a preservation strategy, and instead concetrate on building a pure steam-era roundhouse and backshop museum, we need to find the right candidate and convince ourselves that the financial resources, the volunteer base, the customer base, and the artifacts base will all be there to support it.<p>So I ask your nominations and let's begin the conversation and the planning process.<br>



eledbetter@rypn.org

Hi Erik,<p>I'll answer the challenge with the following eastern roundhouse and shop complexes: Pen Argyl PA, Newport VT, White River Jct. VT, and Colonie NY. Saucon PA would have been on the list, but we just lost the last FULLY INTACT Reading steam era faciltiy (though the turntable was preserved which is great).<p>See the following posts...<p>Patch<br>



MrPatchTown@aol.com

<br>Pen Argyl:<p>1. near a dense enogh customer base...<p>Strong. 30 minutes from Allentown, the Poconos tourist area (closer to hear of Poconos than Steamtown). Proximity to north Jersey.<p>2. sufficient relevant locomotives and stock of the appropriate road...<p>Weak.Not much is left. An 0-60 and S-2 in the midwest, maybe an RS-2 in Mexico. Some freight cars, a business car and many cabooses survive. Other anthracite roads stock could fill it out.<p>3. There should be a reasonable possibility of acquiring the structure from the current owner ...<p>Money talks.<p>4. It should not be in an area already saturated with competing rail preservation attractions...<p>Not a negative as some have posted. PA rail attractions do a good job feeding off each other, especially in Eastern PA.<p>5. Any abatement issues should be modest enough that they will not soak up massive amounts of funds...<p>Ha, ha, ha, ha. I won't answer this question again, as we are talking about engine facilities. Abatement is aprt of the game.<br><br>

<br>Newport, VT on the CPR, now Iron Roads:<p>1. near a dense enogh customer base...<p>Mild. Vermont's northeast kingdom is not as touristy as other parts of the state, though it is close to Montreal.<p>2. sufficient relevant locomotives and stock of the appropriate road...<p>VERY STRONG. There are at least 5 CP D-10 4-6-0's, a common type to operate here. Many great opportunities.<p><p>3. There should be a reasonable possibility of acquiring the structure from the current owner ...<p>It is used by the rr now, but somehwat ineffcient. Questionable future of frieght makes it a better target. It is also in a very pretty location on a lake away from town with NO close neighbors and a huge yard.<p>4. It should not be in an area already saturated with competing rail preservation attractions...<p>Close to Moutn Washington, Crawfords Notch, Clarks Trading Post and Delson, but none are within 90 minutes.<p><p><br>

<br>White River Junction, VT on the CV, now New England Central int he archetypal New England railroad town:<p>1. near a dense enogh customer base...<p>Major tourist traffic, on two intersates.<p>2. sufficient relevant locomotives and stock of the appropriate road...<p>Limited for CV, stronger for the B&M and CP, the other railroads in town (CP on run-throughs).<p><p>3. There should be a reasonable possibility of acquiring the structure from the current owner ...<p>No track or turntable. USed by a trucking firm.<p>4. It should not be in an area already saturated with competing rail preservation attractions...<p>Close to Green Mountian. Could be the southern terminal for a Newport-White RIver Junction run featuiring both roundhouses!<p>Town may host Flying Yankee excoursions this summer.<p><br>

<br>Colonie, NY huge D&H shops.<p>1. near a dense enogh customer base...<p>Yes.<p>2. sufficient relevant locomotives and stock of the appropriate road...<p>Yes.<p><br>3. There should be a reasonable possibility of acquiring the structure from the current owner ...<p>Yes.<p>4. It should not be in an area already saturated with competing rail preservation attractions...<p>None.<p>Fanstastic chance to have a great diesel shop complex and museum. Among the existing D&H power we could look forward to seeing are: PA's, Sharks, U-23-B, C-628, RS-3, RS-2, GP-38-2, C-42o and so many more. Loads of D&H rolling stock exists. Also, there is no D&H museum anywhere.<p><br>

Not going to happen.<p>The main shop building is an environmental nightmare-with most of the roof being gone.<p>Besides-who is going to fund this ?<br>



0401project@netscape.net