Don,

This question is for you. Can I donate specifically to the 39 restoration though the donation link on www.rmli.us or is there another way the museum would prefer to receive dollars for the restoration?

Steve

Hi Guys; Glad to see the 39 get restored and have a place to stretch her legs. My question is about the boiler issues with LIRR 39 of all other ex PRR locomotives (including the boiler of Altoona K4). Exactly what need to be done to fire box and boiler shell to bring the G5 up to current operating codes? Would it be more cost effective to build a new boiler up to current ASTM/ASME standards then cut and weld a few tons of steel into the 80-something -year old one? Also, what is the current status of LIRR G5 35? Have fun everyone - David Notarius, London UK, ex New Hope Pa


PS – What Ross said is true about the” … little chance it would ever leave Strasburg again as the logistics, costs and operating culture on today's railroads would make it next to impossible…”, but if the NS steam programme is still up in running in a few years, the 39 could be a perfect addition and the Strasburg a perfect northern base. And lets not give up on the MTA /LIRR just yet! - Dave

David raises several good issues. I'm confident that Mr. Moedinger's very capable staff have thoroughly vetted the question of the best way to bring her back to life from a total cost perspective and at some appropriate point I'm sure he'll share the results of that homework with the community. I'm about the furthest you can get from being a mechanic but my guess is that just because she shares the same firebox design as the 1361 does not automatially mean that the same restoration approach may apply??

David's point about the NS steam program is an interesting one. Warning...here comes a lot of if's.....if the NS steam program is still up and running when she returns to life and if NS would welcome her out onto the main under their name, and if the NS program is still steam lite ( always has diesel(s) in the consist) so that her relatively small size is not an issue,and if going "out" is something her foster parent wants to do then it could certainly work as a way to let her stretch her legs ( at least up to 40mph if that restriction remains part of NS's steam program) and make new friends.

The biggest if of all is raising the first $ 1 million dollars which is a ton of money in the railfan world. Let's wish them well.

Ross Rowland

I am curious to know just what motivated this decision on the Strasburg side which I think is a wonderful idea. For years we have been hearing that the railroad has delayed restoration of the 972 because there was no money or need for a fifth engine. Now they will be spending big bucks to restore the 39 (an engine they do not own) and even bigger bucks to operate it over a 48 year period in addition to having a fifth locomotive that they really don’t need for their operations. So from the railroad’s standpoint what is the motivation here? Also, I am wondering if the 39 will be used regularly like numbers 90 and 475 or will it come out on rare occasions like the 31? Only Mr. Moedinger can answer these questions and I would surely like to hear what he thinks of the project and why he thinks this is beneficial to the railroad.

Again I think this is a wonderful decision and I will surely be making a donation however, in today’s economy is this beneficial to the Strasburg considering all the costs this project will incur not to mention where are they going to store a fifth engine? I don’t mean to degrade this tremendous effort or the parties involved in any way but I am just curious to know more about how the railroad sees the project and 48 year operation?

Pennsy Power

This is the best news I've heard in years. I'm thinking I might actually see a LIRR locomotive steam in my lifetime.

I know never to say never but the likelyhood of the LIRR ever allowing steam to operate on its rails is pretty close to zero. It's a quasi government operation in charge of getting large amounts of commuters in and out of Manhattan. A delay caused by some antique steam locomotive would be just the thing the predatory news agencies of the area would love to harp on for years. Heads would roll and I doubt anyone in charge is going to take that risk.

I know OBRM is going for the "if we restore it they will let us run it" theory with #35 but it seems a big risk that it will wind up as $2M hanger queen if it is ever completed.

As for how 39 would be used, I'm thinking it would be used like 90 and 475. Even though it's a 4-6-0 it has more tractive effort than 475.

It might just be time I renew my long lapsed membership to RMLI.

Regarding the questions posted having to do with Pennsy boiler design, repairs and alterations, answers are to be found in the following threads, including the post mortem on #1361, which I added only for the background on PRR boiler design that it offers. Now let’s all play nice…

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27305&p=124631&hilit=roof#p124631

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26913&p=121725&hilit=roof#p121725

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23495&hilit=roof

The new roof sheet was just about ready to go on #39's boiler when the previous funding well dried up.

Kelly- thanks very much for those links. It's good to be reminded you've already made substantial progress with #39's boiler.

One question- the linked threads on #39 show a new, thicker roof sheet that's been fabricated for #39. In one of the other threads, a post made by the project manager for PRR #1361 says this:

"The staybolt spacing (5 1/8 X 4 1/2) is too great for the thickness of the sheet even if it were new (the entire wrappper was only specified to be 3/8" when new). Even if the sheet thickness were increased the stresses on the crownstays would be in excess of those permitted by the FRA. "

This implies that not only will a thicker roof sheet be required, but the staybolt spacing will have to be changed as well, which would seem to also require a new crown sheet to accommodate the closer staybolt spacing. Is that correct?

Thanks for your informative posts.

Not both, but one or the other will correct the problem. In this case, the new roof is 1/2" thick, so the staybolt pitch can remain the same. The diameter of the new bolts will be sized to stay below their 7,500 PSI maximum allowed stress.

Before this discussion goes too far, folks, remember that the PRR G5 boiler is NOT identical to the PRR K4s/L1s boiler design. They may be close in many respects, even the critical ones, but just because there was an obvious error made in the 1361's firebox doesn't mean the exact same error is in the 39.

In the press release, there is no mention of who owns the locomotive. Is it a lease or an outright purchase by Strasburg?

Wasn't this engine owned or still owned by the County the LIRR gave it to?

Then there is the question of fundraising. Not too many donors from Long Island are going to give funds for something they will never see locally (and to a for-profit company), but have to drive four hours to Strasburg when and if the engine operates. Its a shrewd move by Strasburg to bring NY tourism to Amish Country.

With RMLI fundraising for the engine, what of the other equipment at their museum that needs funds for restoration? Does that take a back seat to fundraising for 39?

New Yorkers have been a longtime staple of Lancaster tourism so I don’t think that’s the motivation behind this move. I am betting that the LIRR museum has no place to run the engine nor do they have the funds to keep it operating so I guess Strasburg is the next best thing. However, why is Strasburg putting up so much money? What motivates them?

Pennsy Power

Several of these posts bring to mind the old saying....no good deed goes unpunished, and another one....you can't please all the people all the time.

Truth is that as much of a long shot as this is, it's probably the ONLY chance this engine will ever have of seeing active service again.

Oh well, you can lead 'em to water..............................

Ross Rowland

I agree and I am so glad the engine will be active again. So are we looking at 2016? I also remember rumors about the 972 being turned into a G5 since it needs a new firebox. Now they don’t have to do that.

Pennsy Power

I too and surprised by how quickly people are turning on Strasburg. Maybe they're going to use this loco and retire one of the others. Maybe they have some large plan that we don't know about yet. Or maybe they just want to do this. They are certainly entitled to do whatever they want with their railroad. And yes, on the flip side we on the Internet are able to voice our opinions on what they do. Perhaps at this moment we should be happy that another loco is being restored and then wait to see what happens.

Also, while I am not a lawyer, from the original posting I would think that if they can operate it for 48 years then it'd be considered a lease after which it would go back to its actual owners, similar to what they did with 1223 and 7002.

Its a wise economic decision for Strasburg to bring the engine back to the State where it was built.

My only other question is what does RMLI get out of this, as they must fundraise and give the engine to Strasburg.