It is currently Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:13 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 125 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8301
Location: Baltimore, MD
J3a-614 wrote:
Wonder what will happen when the petition hits the goal of 2,000?


As you've no doubt seen by now, in classic MoveOn.org style, it now automatically resets with a new "goal" of 3,000 signatures.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:15 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2050
CMRR...just keep workin away we love hearing all the reports.

Somebody out there wants to throw the cow chips around making life tougher than needed.

I have a number of reserved thoughts on this mayor but I won't share them yet,
but I just wonder if he has another goodie hiding....


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:40 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2435
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
dinwitty wrote:
CMRR...just keep workin away we love hearing all the reports.


That's great, but can someone from CMRR speak as to what steps they've taken to fight the mayor?

Have they discussed with Ulster County the possibility of renegotiating the lease? As I understand it, the lease originally required CMRR to reopen one mile of track a year and CMRR has fallen behind on this.

Has CMRR developed a plan to move the equipment, should the worst case scenario occur?

Does the CMRR or its volunteers have an evidence that signing an electronic petition is forcing the mayor to reconsider his stance?

_________________
--
David M. Wilkins

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:46 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:44 pm
Posts: 30
Quote:
Does the CMRR or its volunteers have an evidence that signing an electronic petition is forcing the mayor to reconsider his stance?

_________________
David M. Wilkins
Quote:


Do trolls have any evidence that doing nothing at all, and having nothing but negative comments produces anything?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:49 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:44 pm
Posts: 30
Repost of link to the petition if you haven't signed yet, please consider doing so, and forwarding it to others. Thanks!


http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/ulster ... by=7898224


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:35 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8301
Location: Baltimore, MD
Oportotrolley516 wrote:
Quote:
Does the CMRR or its volunteers have an evidence that signing an electronic petition is forcing the mayor to reconsider his stance?


Do trolls have any evidence that doing nothing at all, and having nothing but negative comments produces anything?


Toss this very specific issue aside, and we have to legitimately ask, not of this online petition but of EVERY such petition at this and other petition-instigation sites: Do they actually accomplish anything whatsoever aside from making the people that sign feel smugly better about themselves?

I've been to many a civic meeting--city council, liquor board, public utilities commission, NTSB, you name it. It takes a lot to impress those folks. Saying "we got 2,000 people to sign an e-petition" isn't going to impress anyone that's astute enough to be in a position of power. Meanwhile, last month, I watched five neighborhood associations in a major city unite to protest a proposed "megabar" in their area, presenting among other evidence petitions signed by hundreds of local residents. The liquor board paid much more attention to that petition gathered with shoe leather and one-on-one contact than they did the bar's own petition that had been hanging in the currently existing bar, apparently signed mostly by patrons from outside the area. (They handed the petitions to an intern and said "check the addresses" while the meeting continued. Really.) And well they should have. I'm pretty confident that had either side shown up with a MoveOn.org petition, the board members would have said "so what?"

If you can show me cases where an e-petition made the difference in a subject that mattered and took some effort and expense to instigate--not just "name the bridge/school after so-and-so" or something like that, but, say, keeping a zoo open, or adding animals to it, or the like--then I'll break out the crow sauce. Otherwise, the concept smacks too much of "we HAVE to be SEEN to be DOING SOMETHING!"--bad enough when it's your own money or time, much worse when it's said/done by politicians using someone else's money.

Again, I'm NOT arguing against the railroad or preservation proposals, only debating the petition strategy. And whining "why must you be so negative?" or "Do you WANT to see the railroad scrapped??" or "he's a troll" is NOT a valid response to that specific criticism at all.

How much support would you get if you went door-to-door in that county with a paper petition and pen? Ask yourselves that, because that's bound to be the next approach of the rails-to-trails activists. Because it works.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:10 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:41 am
Posts: 72
I too did sign the petition .

Mr. Starr


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:38 am 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1209
I too can see how an e-petition would be of little value compared to hand signed hard copy petitions that were taken door to door. Perhaps the fondness for e-petitions arises out of the popular belief that e-anything is better than manual methods. But the most powerful force that moves local politicians is large groups of people with a common interest, sitting in front of them in town meetings.

As an individual with a cause, you are far better off spending your time rallying your neighbors than going to a meeting and stating your case alone. Letters to the editor of local papers speak directly to your neighbors. City councilors will scold you for speaking out against them to the public instead of appearing alone before the council at a council meeting. They will tell you that it is unfair for you to be stirring up the public rather than coming before the council with your issues. That tells you where your power is.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8301
Location: Baltimore, MD
That meeting with the Liquor Control Board I just described?

About 125 people showed up specifically to protest that one bar's expansion plans. Midday on a Thursday. In the heart of downtown in a big city, having to take transit or pay dearly for parking, then navigate City Hall security. The presentation of statements, etc. went on for nearly three hours, in spite of efforts by the Board to keep things short.

The chairman of the Board called the opposition "overwhelming and almost unprecedented." The typical meeting brings little more than a dozen license applicants and maybe one or two supporters or opponents total.

THAT is what "City Hall" pays attention to. Not mouse clicks.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:47 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:44 pm
Posts: 30
Quote:
Toss this very specific issue aside, and we have to legitimately ask, not of this online petition but of EVERY such petition at this and other petition-instigation sites: Do they actually accomplish anything whatsoever aside from making the people that sign feel smugly better about themselves?



Perhaps I was a little harsh, I just can't stand negative energy. As far as the petition goes certainly it may mean nothing, however I look at it from my own standpoint;


1-It prompted me to bring the issue to the attention of a number of people who were
not aware of what was going on, the petition was a helpful vehicle to do so.
2-Some of these same people, including myself have called the local government to
voice their opinions.
3-Building awareness as in they told 2 friends who told two friends etc......
4-Politicians always run polls, this could be considered a poll of sorts.
5-Is there a chance, even a slim one that some of our government officials actually use
the internet, and read the petition? Is it possible it may make them think about what
they are doing?
6-Letting the CMRR volunteers know they are appreciated. I can tell you that
good morale goes a long way on a job site or railroad for that matter.



I run my own business, which means I am ALWAYS working, I agree that bringing a
petition around Ulster County and getting hard signatures would be 1000+ times
better, however it's not possible that it will be me who does it.

If anyone wants to organize a protest, I will leave my customers for a day (the world
might stop) and join in!

I hope the CMRR gets more vocal about the goings on, it seems they have been rather
quiet.


Also, Alexander I meant to thank you for the kind welcome to the forum a few weeks ago, please excuse my tardiness in doing so.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:42 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2435
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Oportotrolley516 wrote:

I hope the CMRR gets more vocal about the goings on, it seems they have been rather
quiet..


I don't see where calling me a name gets you anywhere. Why can I not be allowed to ask reasonable questions? At least the petition got you motivated, which is the first concrete evidence that it has done anything, but that's good.

I hope CMRR isn't relying on it, or by wishing the problem to disappear on its own.

_________________
--
David M. Wilkins

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:31 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:44 pm
Posts: 30
wilkinsd wrote:
Oportotrolley516 wrote:

I hope the CMRR gets more vocal about the goings on, it seems they have been rather
quiet..


I don't see where calling me a name gets you anywhere. Why can I not be allowed to ask reasonable questions? At least the petition got you motivated, which is the first concrete evidence that it has done anything, but that's good.

I hope CMRR isn't relying on it, or by wishing the problem to disappear on its own.


As I said, perhaps I was a little harsh, however you have had nothing but negative comments regarding this petition from day one. Certainly you are entitled to your opinion, however one thing is for sure negativity produces absolutely nothing. I have listed at least SIX positive reasons from at least my own standpoint for the petition, i'm sure there are more.



Also I meant to thank Ross Rowland for the warm welcome to RYPN, I realize I need to proof read before posting after a long day!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:35 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:44 pm
Posts: 30
Link with phone numbers and email addresses of local government officials;

http://catskillmtrailroad.com/support-us.php


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:46 pm
Posts: 242
Maybe this thread should be closed? It's going nowhere and it's frankly depressing to read.

I've been posting any news in the regular CMRR thread.

I do know CMRR volunteers spoke last week at a Ulster County legislature session in sup[port of the railroad.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:05 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2050
NOT signing the petition is doing nothing and nothing happens, that why the petition.

debate all you want pro/con, not showing the petition or its existence would only garner zero effect.

negative effect of this thread? Now see how the Mayor plays his politics and what its done, a lot of ballywhoo.

I'll join Monty Python's silly party, more sense than this mayor.

The mayor is not "welcoming" the railroad, but lets work out some issues, he's just playing hardball and doesnt seem to give a whit. He sounds more like "Lets find problems with the railroad and make them look negative so we can have more evidence to bring in the trail"

2 can play this game, lets say he gets the trail, he better be out there voluntarily picking up coke cans etc then if he doesnt we can fine him.

If he sees a coke can on the railroad he better pick it up.
If he sees a coke can takes a picture and say "Proves their not pickup up trash"
he's doing extortion.
If he throws a coke can onto the railroad and takes a picture "Proves they arent pickup up trash" its extortion.

He's starting a fingerpoint.

He may not realize how much railroads deal with daily problems caused by not their doings, people running around gates, people purposely putting refrigerators on tracks, this tiff he's into is silliness.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 125 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: