Railway Preservation News :: View topic - Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR

CMRR...just keep workin away we love hearing all the reports.

Quote:

Does the CMRR or its volunteers have an evidence that signing an electronic petition is forcing the mayor to reconsider his stance?

Do trolls have any evidence that doing nothing at all, and having nothing but negative comments produces anything?

Toss this very specific issue aside, and we have to legitimately ask, not of this online petition but of EVERY such petition at this and other petition-instigation sites: Do they actually accomplish anything whatsoever aside from making the people that sign feel smugly better about themselves?

I hope the CMRR gets more vocal about the goings on, it seems they have been rather
quiet..

Oportotrolley516 wrote:

I hope the CMRR gets more vocal about the goings on, it seems they have been rather
quiet..

I don't see where calling me a name gets you anywhere. Why can I not be allowed to ask reasonable questions? At least the petition got you motivated, which is the first concrete evidence that it has done anything, but that's good.

I hope CMRR isn't relying on it, or by wishing the problem to disappear on its own.

Also I meant to thank Ross Rowland for the warm welcome to RYPN, I realize I need to proof read before posting after a long day!

Author:	wilkinsd [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
dinwitty wrote: CMRR...just keep workin away we love hearing all the reports. That's great, but can someone from CMRR speak as to what steps they've taken to fight the mayor? Have they discussed with Ulster County the possibility of renegotiating the lease? As I understand it, the lease originally required CMRR to reopen one mile of track a year and CMRR has fallen behind on this. Has CMRR developed a plan to move the equipment, should the worst case scenario occur? Does the CMRR or its volunteers have an evidence that signing an electronic petition is forcing the mayor to reconsider his stance?

Author:	Oportotrolley516 [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
Quote: Does the CMRR or its volunteers have an evidence that signing an electronic petition is forcing the mayor to reconsider his stance? _________________ David M. Wilkins Quote: Do trolls have any evidence that doing nothing at all, and having nothing but negative comments produces anything?

Author:	Oportotrolley516 [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
Repost of link to the petition if you haven't signed yet, please consider doing so, and forwarding it to others. Thanks! http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/ulster ... by=7898224

Author:	Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
Oportotrolley516 wrote: Quote: Does the CMRR or its volunteers have an evidence that signing an electronic petition is forcing the mayor to reconsider his stance? Do trolls have any evidence that doing nothing at all, and having nothing but negative comments produces anything? Toss this very specific issue aside, and we have to legitimately ask, not of this online petition but of EVERY such petition at this and other petition-instigation sites: Do they actually accomplish anything whatsoever aside from making the people that sign feel smugly better about themselves? I've been to many a civic meeting--city council, liquor board, public utilities commission, NTSB, you name it. It takes a lot to impress those folks. Saying "we got 2,000 people to sign an e-petition" isn't going to impress anyone that's astute enough to be in a position of power. Meanwhile, last month, I watched five neighborhood associations in a major city unite to protest a proposed "megabar" in their area, presenting among other evidence petitions signed by hundreds of local residents. The liquor board paid much more attention to that petition gathered with shoe leather and one-on-one contact than they did the bar's own petition that had been hanging in the currently existing bar, apparently signed mostly by patrons from outside the area. (They handed the petitions to an intern and said "check the addresses" while the meeting continued. Really.) And well they should have. I'm pretty confident that had either side shown up with a MoveOn.org petition, the board members would have said "so what?" If you can show me cases where an e-petition made the difference in a subject that mattered and took some effort and expense to instigate--not just "name the bridge/school after so-and-so" or something like that, but, say, keeping a zoo open, or adding animals to it, or the like--then I'll break out the crow sauce. Otherwise, the concept smacks too much of "we HAVE to be SEEN to be DOING SOMETHING!"--bad enough when it's your own money or time, much worse when it's said/done by politicians using someone else's money. Again, I'm NOT arguing against the railroad or preservation proposals, only debating the petition strategy. And whining "why must you be so negative?" or "Do you WANT to see the railroad scrapped??" or "he's a troll" is NOT a valid response to that specific criticism at all. How much support would you get if you went door-to-door in that county with a paper petition and pen? Ask yourselves that, because that's bound to be the next approach of the rails-to-trails activists. Because it works.

Author:	Mr.Starr [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
I too did sign the petition . Mr. Starr

Railway Preservation News http://www.rypn.org/forums/

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Author:	Ron Travis [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
I too can see how an e-petition would be of little value compared to hand signed hard copy petitions that were taken door to door. Perhaps the fondness for e-petitions arises out of the popular belief that e-anything is better than manual methods. But the most powerful force that moves local politicians is large groups of people with a common interest, sitting in front of them in town meetings. As an individual with a cause, you are far better off spending your time rallying your neighbors than going to a meeting and stating your case alone. Letters to the editor of local papers speak directly to your neighbors. City councilors will scold you for speaking out against them to the public instead of appearing alone before the council at a council meeting. They will tell you that it is unfair for you to be stirring up the public rather than coming before the council with your issues. That tells you where your power is.

Author:	wilkinsd [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
Oportotrolley516 wrote: I hope the CMRR gets more vocal about the goings on, it seems they have been rather quiet.. I don't see where calling me a name gets you anywhere. Why can I not be allowed to ask reasonable questions? At least the petition got you motivated, which is the first concrete evidence that it has done anything, but that's good. I hope CMRR isn't relying on it, or by wishing the problem to disappear on its own.

Author:	Oportotrolley516 [ Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
wilkinsd wrote: Oportotrolley516 wrote: I hope the CMRR gets more vocal about the goings on, it seems they have been rather quiet.. I don't see where calling me a name gets you anywhere. Why can I not be allowed to ask reasonable questions? At least the petition got you motivated, which is the first concrete evidence that it has done anything, but that's good. I hope CMRR isn't relying on it, or by wishing the problem to disappear on its own. As I said, perhaps I was a little harsh, however you have had nothing but negative comments regarding this petition from day one. Certainly you are entitled to your opinion, however one thing is for sure negativity produces absolutely nothing. I have listed at least SIX positive reasons from at least my own standpoint for the petition, i'm sure there are more. Also I meant to thank Ross Rowland for the warm welcome to RYPN, I realize I need to proof read before posting after a long day!

Author:	thebigham [ Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
Maybe this thread should be closed? It's going nowhere and it's frankly depressing to read. I've been posting any news in the regular CMRR thread. I do know CMRR volunteers spoke last week at a Ulster County legislature session in sup[port of the railroad.

Author:	dinwitty [ Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
NOT signing the petition is doing nothing and nothing happens, that why the petition. debate all you want pro/con, not showing the petition or its existence would only garner zero effect. negative effect of this thread? Now see how the Mayor plays his politics and what its done, a lot of ballywhoo. I'll join Monty Python's silly party, more sense than this mayor. The mayor is not "welcoming" the railroad, but lets work out some issues, he's just playing hardball and doesnt seem to give a whit. He sounds more like "Lets find problems with the railroad and make them look negative so we can have more evidence to bring in the trail" 2 can play this game, lets say he gets the trail, he better be out there voluntarily picking up coke cans etc then if he doesnt we can fine him. If he sees a coke can on the railroad he better pick it up. If he sees a coke can takes a picture and say "Proves their not pickup up trash" he's doing extortion. If he throws a coke can onto the railroad and takes a picture "Proves they arent pickup up trash" its extortion. He's starting a fingerpoint. He may not realize how much railroads deal with daily problems caused by not their doings, people running around gates, people purposely putting refrigerators on tracks, this tiff he's into is silliness.

Author:	wilkinsd [ Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
Oportotrolley516 wrote: Also I meant to thank Ross Rowland for the warm welcome to RYPN, I realize I need to proof read before posting after a long day! Your thanks may be misplaced. Had Mr. Rowland had his way about six years ago, RYPN would no longer exist.

Author:	co614 [ Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
I accept the gratitude with joy. To keep to the facts, I did "get my way" and excessive locking and arbitrary erasures became a thing of the past, to the benefit of all, even the small contingent of NNN's, IMHO. Thank you, Ross Rowland

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Author:	Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Please sign the petition to help save the CMRR
That meeting with the Liquor Control Board I just described? About 125 people showed up specifically to protest that one bar's expansion plans. Midday on a Thursday. In the heart of downtown in a big city, having to take transit or pay dearly for parking, then navigate City Hall security. The presentation of statements, etc. went on for nearly three hours, in spite of efforts by the Board to keep things short. The chairman of the Board called the opposition "overwhelming and almost unprecedented." The typical meeting brings little more than a dozen license applicants and maybe one or two supporters or opponents total. THAT is what "City Hall" pays attention to. Not mouse clicks.