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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:20 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 1885
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
It is a shame, because in the big budget of Disney, these steam trains are not significant.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:20 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:37 pm
Posts: 435
Location: Missoula MT
This subject came up about two or three weeks ago on the Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum, infact it was this thread: http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,260577

No more certainty there than here. There are people who probably do know, but they're not posting. Until Disney says boo one way or the other, it's an unknown.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT


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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 10:13 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Metropolis
p51 wrote:
I also find it odd that you're apparently the only person saying this, in more than one venue, even among a huge group of Disney Train fans on the burnsland forum.


Short answer: Those in the know are mostly keeping quiet—and aren't in a position to do otherwise in a public forum.

Having heard accounts out of both coasts regarding this, I wouldn't discount a word of what Steve is saying, and certainly not over petty semantics. Keep in mind Team Disney Orlando operates as a relatively independent entity and thinks very differently from its Left Coast predecessor. I'd surmise Steve's ambiguity in language (like mine) lies in the optimism that Burbank might have the final word, which could very well differ despite the wishes of WDW management. The best way to classify it at this point, at least to my knowledge, is "proposal being actively explored."

But hey, what do I know?

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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 1903
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
mikefrommontana wrote:
This subject came up about two or three weeks ago on the Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum, infact it was this thread: http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,260577

Yeah, but did you notive that Steve (the original poster to this thread) is the same guy who started that thread, too?
It might be true for all I know, but I can't get past that one person is going almost everywhere he can with this message and nobody else is saying anything along those lines...

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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:46 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:25 am
Posts: 1025
I live less than an hour's drive away from the Magic Kingdom in Anaheim, and have never seriously considered visiting WDW in Florida. That said, I think it would be a bad idea for WDW to replace real steamers with diesel powered fakes. Even some of the guests who aren't card carrying steam enthusiasts will notice the difference, and will see it as a sign that the management is trying to cheapen the experience, but not the admission price.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 389
Location: Winters, TX
What I'm taking from this thread is a warning that those who are interested in this operation might want visit Walt Disney World in the near future. Obviously Steve is more knowledgeable about the subject and I appreciate the heads up about its possible demise.


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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:17 pm
Posts: 542
Location: Ballard, WA
Is there a press release from Walt Disney World re: the end of steam operations?


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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:05 pm
Posts: 329
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
I have no clue here, but with any steam operation, ride it while you can. You never know when it will be gone- near or far. BR&Q #60 steaming into Lambertville, NJ or the woodburning steam of passenger trains of Paraguay.


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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:55 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3032
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Steve Singer wrote:
I have no clue here, but with any steam operation, ride it while you can. You never know when it will be gone- near or far. BR&W #60 steaming into Lambertville, NJ or the woodburning steam of passenger trains of Paraguay.


As someone who for financial and other reasons (including poor judgement--"it'll be around") has missed out on too much, I can only second this opinion.

As to semantics, I would argue that Steve simply forgot to put his punctuation in the post title--in this case, a question mark.


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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:03 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1214
It is hard to believe that Disney would need to end steam to save money on operation and maintenance. If there was a viable need to run authentic steam in the past, doesn’t that need continue into the future? If they can get by with a fake mockup in the future, why didn’t they do that in the past?


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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8354
Location: Baltimore, MD
Ron Travis wrote:
It is hard to believe that Disney would need to end steam to save money on operation and maintenance. If there was a viable need to run authentic steam in the past, doesn’t that need continue into the future? If they can get by with a fake mockup in the future, why didn’t they do that in the past?

Some guy named Walter E. Disney? Who was a live-steamer and card-carrying railfan? And who left his brother in charge? And who hired some other steam guys into his inner circle?

Strictly from a bean-counter business standpoint, such a rumored move might well be sensible. In a 21st century increasingly removed from any exposure to real steam/agriculture/industry/etc., a move to replace an inherently labor-intensive and persnickety mode of propulsion with a more efficient one (that can be operated smoothly by one person, perhaps) to deceive folks that really wouldn't know the difference anyway in this age at least sounds like something accountants and managers would propose.


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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:14 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2431
I'm a big fan of park train steam, and nobody does it better than Disney. I certainly hope they have a change of heart.

That said, there is a precedent. Animal Kingdom's train is steam outline. I think some of the new parks may also operate steam outlines, but I'm not sure which one(s).

It's an amusement park, and most of what's there is fake/simulated. I'm guessing the majority of folks won't care.


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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:28 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3032
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Strictly from a bean-counter business standpoint, such a rumored move might well be sensible. In a 21st century increasingly removed from any exposure to real steam/agriculture/industry/etc., a move to replace an inherently labor-intensive and persnickety mode of propulsion with a more efficient one (that can be operated smoothly by one person, perhaps) to deceive folks that really wouldn't know the difference anyway in this age at least sounds like something accountants and managers would propose.


Sadly, this is VERY true, enough to the point that I firmly believe that accountants, bankers, and lawyers, as a general rule, should not have top management positions in firms outside their fields--and I say this as an auditor! Those guys see EVERYTHING as money, and nothing but money.

Disney (and Henry Ford) didn't think much of bankers. Disney himself has been quoted as saying to one of his artists, "You know the bankers, they have no imagination. The can't visualize what you tell them you are going to do, they have no way of visualizing it." This was in a conversation with Herbert Ryman, who would paint an illustration of the then-unbuilt Disneyland "for the bankers."

I've been told that this is the reason for those architectural drawings for housing developments--not only as a sales tool for the public, but for the bankers who can't read maps or blueprints.

I can't help but think that, like fire, money is a very useful servant, but a cruel master.


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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:32 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:41 pm
Posts: 95
It's interesting to note that a well-known tourist railroad in PA, whom, to the best of our knowledge, still has a certain Disney steam in their possession have remained quite silent on this issue. I would like to hear their take on the matter being so close to this particular subject. Just curious is all.

DC


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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:36 am 
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Location: Eagan, MN
Donald Cormack wrote:
It's interesting to note that a well-known tourist railroad in PA, whom, to the best of our knowledge, still has a certain Disney steam in their possession have remained quite silent on this issue. I would like to hear their take on the matter being so close to this particular subject. Just curious is all.

DC


I would be astonished if they did comment, as they are notably reserved (and properly so) about their customers affairs.

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