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 Post subject: Locomotives from the recent past you’d like to see run again
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:28 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 270
I’m in the Southeast and would really love to see the FEC #80 a.k.a. S&A 750 get a top notch overhaul. I worked on her off and on from 87 to 89 and can say that she was in rough shape at the end. The scope of a top notch redo could possibly include a boiler. From front to back the smoke box is really rough. Then there is the patched first course – if you did not know there is an inner and outer patch on the bottom that fixed a rotted out section just in front of the flue sheet. The patch is one piece on the outside and then there are 2 pieces inside on either side of the flu sheet. If you had to put a new flue sheet in that patch would have to be removed. The next 2 courses from memory are in as good a shape as can be expected for a loco that never really retired. I suspect that that the steam dome at the very least would need to have all the cap studs replaced and one only knows the condition of its attach point on the boiler tube. Her firebox wrapper is in rough condition, and the loco has scads of flexible stays down the side. The sleeves were constantly being tended to deal with leaks. The fire box itself was really old. Its crown luckily did not fail. If you go see her and peak inside the firebox you’ll see that a large section is missing. At the end of her service on the New GA an attempt was made to drive new stays in the crown only to find out that there was not enough material in the sheet for the bolt to grip. Also though I never saw it myself a side sheet was inscribed “1948” with weld bead. The bulk head may or may not be in great shape but if the wrapper were replaced probably a good idea to put a new back on as well. So from front to back you can see that an overhaul of the 750 may not require a new boiler but many things would be fixed for a long long time with a new one. BTW the smoke box front is new so just clean prime an paint it.

Her frame and running gear would need serious attention. If you ever saw her at speed or road her you know how much she wobbled back and forth down the track. Her front truck was disassembled and shimmed to tighten up the ride on the front. I remember when the engine truck body was pulled out and seen in the light of day. There was a collective “oh my” at its seeming frailness. The work done helped, but attention on her ride quickly moved to the drivers. There was a suspicion that her No. 3 driver axle was bent – though never confirmed. Her driver tires were basically done. I know she got a driver overhaul in Birmingham on her return from Arkansas and the filming for “Biloxi Blues”. That work really helped from what I recall. I don’t recall the trailing truck ever giving the crew problems. I’m thinking a “630” level redo on the running gear would be the minimum. New tires, new roller bearing front engine truck, roller bearing mod to rear truck (if possible), oil cellar driver journals (has used grease cakes but from all reported the hard grease available today is not as good). At 104 years old there is no way the frame is straight and may have some cracks.

The Tender is in “I don’t know” shape. From her exit from the S&A to her days’ on the Southern it got several modifications. Fortunately the tank has not been left outside so rust rot may not be too big of a deal. Modify the trucks with roller bearings.

Anyhow that is my knowledge of her condition at the end of her service in 1989. Dubbed the “Ballerina” her small lean stature had a grace that is appealing and having grown up with her, I’d love to see her run a gain.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=127969


Last edited by TimReynolds on Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Locomotives from the recent past you’d like to see run a
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:48 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 270
Here is a photo taken during her last overhaul in 1988. The boiler patch was applied at this time. Because of the patch she missed pulling specials during the Democratic National Convention which was held in Atlanta that year.


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750_5_20_1988~3.jpg
750_5_20_1988~3.jpg [ 212.95 KiB | Viewed 2621 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Locomotives from the recent past you’d like to see run a
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:15 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 270
2 more from 1988.


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File comment: On the other side of the shop sat 290 undergoing its overhaul. She was running a year later.
290_5_20_1988~2.jpg
290_5_20_1988~2.jpg [ 189.72 KiB | Viewed 2617 times ]
File comment: As you can see there were many flexible stay bolts on her side sheets. Panning from the smoke box back the first ring of rivets is the flue sheet. On the bottom of the boiler tube between the smoke box and that rivet ring is where the patch was placed. There is a speck of light in the photo that is part of the hole. The outer piece of steel ran from the smoke box, under the sheet for about 2 feet on the pressure side. The flue sheet rivets in the area were removed and then reapplied through the outer patch so that the boiler tube was sandwiched between the sheet rim and outer patch. Patch steel was placed inside on either side of the flue sheet again sandwiching the old boiler tube material.
750_2_20_1988~4.jpg
750_2_20_1988~4.jpg [ 202.88 KiB | Viewed 2617 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Locomotives from the recent past you’d like to see run a
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:10 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 am
Posts: 794
Location: NJ
I'll admit I am biased (and who isn't?) but I'd put 750's former FEC stablemate 148 at the top of the list. If you look at both the specs and history, 750 (80), 113, 148 and 153 are all light enough to go just about anywhere, yet large enough to handle a good size train, and at speed. I was in 148's cab on the CNJ for part of the 'Blue Comet' trip in 1975. We made the 60 MPH track speed, maybe a bit more, with 9 heavyweight CNJ coaches behind us. Some of those coaches were air-conditioned, which added to the weight.

True, 148 needs a new boiler, or at least a new firebox. The tender needs work as well. But what many people don't realize is that that 148's running gear is like new. The late Sam Freeman sank a fortune into new German tires, boxes, wedges, spring rigging, brake rigging, hub liners, pins and rod bushings, many other things. The engine ran on a few fantrips, and saw tourist service for only two years before being sidelined for boiler and firebox issues. It was moved around Jersey, then to CT, later to Michigan on it's own wheels, before being taken apart and moved to Colorado. And it doesn't belong in Colorado, climbing mountains!!

Of course, the same weight and capability criteria can be applied to the six CPR G-5s still around. I'm told they were a 1918 or 1920 design, upgraded with more modern features in the late '40s for use on secondary lines in Canada. A bit chunkier than the FEC Pacifics, the G-5s would be high on my list as well.


Last edited by EDM on Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Locomotives from the recent past you’d like to see run a
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:06 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
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1522 +1, and how about (now that the climate might be permissive) Cotton Belt 819?

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 Post subject: Re: Locomotives from the recent past you’d like to see run a
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:23 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:31 pm
Posts: 27
Location: people's republic of Md
N&W 1218


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotives from the recent past you’d like to see run a
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:31 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:29 am
Posts: 316
Location: Schuylkill County, PA
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 Post subject: Re: Locomotives from the recent past you’d like to see run a
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:54 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:03 pm
Posts: 115
Location: Pennsylvania
I have a whole slew of locomotives I'd like to see back.

N&W 611
SSW 819
Frisco 1522
FEC 148
PRR 1361
A&WP 290
CPR 2860
C&O 614
RDG 2102
N&W 1218
D&RGW 497
SOU 722
T&P 610
S&A 750
GW 51
Sierra 34
Sierra 36
PRR 1223
NKP 759
CNR 3254
RDG 2100
CNR 1533


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotives from the recent past you’d like to see run a
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:42 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 253
While I hate to be the wet blanket here; how many of these can be restored and run under the current climate?

The list of engines that we (or someone) would like to see return to steam runs to almost, if not every, steam engine that remains today.

Unless it has a place to run, I think the best solution is to get the engine you would like to see run under cover, and then get the mechanical side fixed up. Frame, drivers, cylinders, the whole 9 yards. Pull the tubes and ultrasound the boiler; fix any and all defects. Overhaul the other systems to like-new. Then, don't put flues in, button it up, and display it. Why? If you don't put flues in, all that needs to be done is a new form 4 and flues if/when the time comes that you have a time to run and a train to pull.

This serves multiple purposes, including ensuring a supply of steam locomotives that can be brought to service relatively quickly when the engines running now die on the calendar. I think several outfits learned a lesson about not shoe-stringing along what little life an engine has when the revised CFR part 230 came out and they had to drop the fires on most, if not all of their steam, in some cases just now being able to again run steam. (I'm not going to name names here)

As to the engines mentioned earlier: (split into possible/less that possible for operation, though admittedly arbitrary)

N&W 611: Send the money! the sooner you do, the sooner she heads for Spencer.

Frisco 1522: One can hope (I say this as a fan of 1522), She would have a few places to run.

PRR 1361: This one is an interesting case, and if/when they can get her under steam; it will probably come down to attitude of her owners deciding if Norfolk Southern will let her run on their tracks.

S&A 750: Funding to restore it? I'm sure if you asked nicely NS might consider it for 21st Century Steam.

RDG 2102: Send Andy Mueller (sp?) a big check and it will probably happen.

D&RGW 497: Send money, the General Manager wants to get her running, just takes cubic dollars.

CPR 2860: money?

C&O 614: I'm sure if you convince CSX to let steam run, Ross would have 614 ready to roll. NS probably won't touch it since it's C&O.

N&W 1218: I believe Gary Gray already said when the 1.5 million dollar check clears the bank, he'll get started.

SOU 722: lets hope AHR can get it right.

GW 51: where to run it?

RDG 2100: can you afford to fix it? where can it run? (Maybe, big maybe, NS?)

T&P 610: not for a long time, way to big for Texas State, and it is not leaving any time soon.

A&WP 290: got a place to run?

Sierra 34: got money?

Sierra 36: got money?

NKP 759: got a place Steamtown can run it?

CNR 1533: send a big check.

FEC 148: find money & somewhere to run it.

CNR 3254: That will go over well with the anti-steamtown crowd.

PRR 1223: not going to happen.

SSW 819: Good luck with that!

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 Post subject: Re: Locomotives from the recent past you’d like to see run a
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:32 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 270
Speaking of A&WP 290, it’s in better overall condition and needs less work than S&A 750. She was plagued by hot bearings early in her second career. NS did a good job straightening her out some with shims but significant frame work is probably called for. Also the pony and trailing trucks are still friction bearing equipped so any mainline possibilities may call for roller bearing modification. The tender tank/bunker is new and the trucks are roller bearing.
WARNING DEAD HORSE BEATING As for where to run, a little green grease paint might interest NS.


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotives from the recent past you’d like to see run a
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:56 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3731
Location: Maine
The effort to purchase and restore Maine Central 470 is an uphill climb, as are most worthwhile efforts. We are moving forward each week with donations and contribution. (Commercial here: Check our Indiegogo site and please donate!). I think a critical point needs to be made that once restored to operating capability, the locomotive is in prime condition. Even a locomotive such as 2102 or 614, or a better example, 1522, is brought back once then stored for repairs or lack of operating funds, the journey to return it to service is never quire as long or difficult. Exceptions would be 2100 or possibly 1361. Point it, once a locomotive is rebuilt, the value of the rebuilding effort is appreciated, and the loco is kept lubed, and dry, generally under cover.
NKP 759 would be one which made a triumphant return and should again.
For Maine Central 470, it is a complete restoration, from the ground up. Absolutely worth it, because it will never have to climb as far again.

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Last edited by Richard Glueck on Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Locomotives from the recent past you’d like to see run a
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:29 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:29 am
Posts: 316
Location: Schuylkill County, PA
Bulby wrote:
RDG 2102: Send Andy Mueller (sp?) a big check and it will probably happen.


Andy has already retained the services of an outside contractor to do a full inspection of 2102 and determine what the actual cost will be to make her roadworthy again. The final decision will be made pending the outcome of that inspection. Unofficially, word is that Andy is motivated by one of his grandchildren wanting to see "the big engine" run.

So while I wouldn't say it will probably happen, I will say it's a definite maybe.

And it's Muller, not Mueller. 2102 is also one of the only big engines on the list with a COMPLETELY SECURE place to run it (although the fact that she's too big for the table at Jim Thorpe AND Port Clinton adds extra layers of difficulty for the crews vs. running #425.)


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotives from the recent past you’d like to see run a
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:50 pm 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
I'd love to see ET&WNC 208 (the rest of you know her as SRR 722) running someday.
I'm not holding my breath, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Locomotives from the recent past you’d like to see run a
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:58 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 270
TimReynolds wrote:
I’m in the Southeast and would really love to see the FEC #80 a.k.a. S&A 750 get a top notch overhaul...
There was a suspicion that her No. 3 driver axle was bent – though never confirmed. Her driver tires were basically done. I know she got a driver overhaul in Birmingham on her return from Arkansas and the filming for “Biloxi Blues”.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=127969


I believe that I had recalled an accounting of the bent axle caused when her side rod got thrown during her break ins in 1983 (I think). The rod was thrown, valve gear could and reverse damaged after a really bad slip. The NS replaced the bent 3rd driver axle, and she went onto have a good run as the number 2 engine in the fleet.

While in New Georgia service an attempt was made to use oil well boxes on the drivers instead of grease cakes. The third ran hotter than the others, and the oil wells were ok for light in town trips but out on the road they were a pain. The journals ran hot and we had this oil pump with a long copper tube that we would feed through the spokes to put oil in the oil well on the opposite side. Seems like I got called on often to do the climb under her and feed the lil tube into the well while a more experienced member pumped the oil can. Fun times.


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotives from the recent past you’d like to see run a
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:35 pm 

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:26 pm
Posts: 8
I personally would love to see 1361 steam again. However, it seems rather unlikely at this point.


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