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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:30 am
Posts: 84
you got it Ross. Ant updates on the Yellow Ribbon Express? Would you get Mr. Campbell to have 643 restored to haul the train? What's the status of the 614?


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:24 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 am
Posts: 48
How are things over at the Colebrookdale, Allentown & Auburn, or Steamtown Mr
Lenny "James J. Beckman Sr." Shaner? I'd "ratter" know about these things than continue beating this dead horse. Nothing will ever happen with 643 so long as Mr. Campbell owns it. Mr. Rowland has had more successful excursion ventures than anyone else I can name while you have been banned from almost every operation you come in contact with. You are fooling no one.


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8294
Location: Baltimore, MD
Steel City wrote:
Maybe you don't know the law Mr. Rowland. But what you're doing is called Slander, libel and Defamation. Defamation is an area of law that provides a civil remedy when someone's words end up causing harm to your reputation or your livelihood. Libel is a written or published defamatory statement, while slander is defamation that is spoken by the defendant. I really think Mr. Campbell has some good grounds here for suing.

As someone who has actually had academic training in libel and slander:

In order to be worth the bother to pursue such litigation in civil court, one has to be able to prove a couple things:
1) the statements made are factually untrue;
2) the defendant knew that said statements were factually untrue; and
3) the plaintiff suffered financial harm as a result of said statements (not required, but sure helps your case).

If I say "Budweiser tastes like pig swill," no one is going to sue me because it's strictly opinion and no one who doesn't already agree with me is going to change their beer buying habits based on what I said. However, if The Food Babe were to state all over the Internet and then news media that Budweiser is made with ground-up chicken guts and toxic antifreeze, ABInBev has cause to sue her socks off (even though, in a ridiculously preposterous sense her statement was vaguely, technically true--antifreeze ingredients are used to run chillers in the brewing process, and one obscure additive was at one time derived from chicken proteins). Whether they choose to sue her is up to them, and in all sincerity their legal team will probably tell them it's smarter to ignore her than to bring publicity to her false allegations, because as with my imaginary proclamation, anyone who's inclined to believe her is likely not drinking macrobrewery-produced beer in the first place.

Mr. Rowland--who at one point attempted to get this very forum shut down years ago with threats of vexatious litigation, mind you--knows and understands the above.

You are free to consult with, and thus further enrich, a member of the predatory sub-class known as "attorneys" in pursuit of such litigation. But I suggest that you instead put that money towards the panel track, cranes, property purchases, magical fairy dust, or whatever that the Steel City group will need to get its loco anywhere, be it intact or in pieces.


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:34 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:32 pm
Posts: 19
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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:37 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 am
Posts: 48
Sure Shaner. I would think someone with a professional background would have a much better command of the English language and better spelling and grammar skills.


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:05 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:54 pm
Posts: 18
Gentlemen, please. We have strayed off of the topic of B&LE 643 and more onto attacking one another over a petty dispute. Based on my previous reading of this forum as a non-user, I was under the impression that there was a mutual agreement not to discuss 643 as it only stirred up such useless debates, similar to those that have locked threads regarding 844, 1309, Steamtown, and surely many others before my discovery of this site. Moderators, It appears to me this thread has outlived its useful life, as have other 643 threads. If one of you feels compelled to do so, clean up the train-wreck that has occurred in the recent revival; otherwise, please just lock it up, it is doing no one any good at this time.


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 1790
Steel City Railroad Historical Society is listed as a 501(c)(3) on Guidestar and also has a current registration with the state of Pennsylvania. The Society was incorporated in 1995.

Further deponent sayeth not.


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:09 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8294
Location: Baltimore, MD
Steel City wrote:
But I do know the personal attacks towards Mr. Campbell better stop. Because I'm sure if Mr. Campbell would obtain court orders, this forum would have to provide the correct information on each person who's been attacking Mr. Campbell for a very long time.

Pass the popcorn. Sorry, folks, but this I gotta hear, just for kicks and giggles.

Court orders from what court?

Orders to do what, exactly?

What "correct information" do you expect whom, exactly, to provide?

Of what use will this "correct information" be?

And exactly where, do you suggest, is there any evidence that I have been "attacking" some "Mr. Campbell"? I have a pretty good policy of not verbally or figuratively "attacking" anyone that I can't criticize to his/her face on a first-name basis or who isn't, or hasn't made himself by his own actions, a "public figure." I don't know Mr. Campbell the alleged 643 owner from the musical singer of that name or a hole in the ground; I haven't interacted with him; heck, I have yet to lay eyes on 643 in person. I have no reason to "attack" him whatsoever; I'm a staunch defender of private property rights, as anyone hearing me defend the owners of the East Broad Top over the years can testify. Mentally, like the EBT, I've written off 643 as a Greek tragedy that can have no positive outcome at this point. That doesn't mean I wish misfortune on Mr. Campbell or anyone else supposedly "owning" 643. It would be nice if something else happened to it, but I'm not playing the lottery, and I don't recommend that strategy as a long-term strategy anyway. And unless Mr. Moneybags from Monopoly shows up, and that's phony cash anyways........

Anyway, back to the reality:

If this Steel City group wishes to save B&LE 643 from its current predicament, it needs to step from the shadows, and solicit both money and attention from potentially sympathetic benefactors. It needs to project a realistic mission and objective grounded in reality. And, last but not least, it needs to be willing to compromise between what it wants and what is offered. Compromise results in rescue and preservation--one example being the DL&W Belford 99 just "rescued" from Maine last month at the last minute by NS. Lack of compromise results in such debacles as the now-moribund EBT and the scrapping of Grand Trunk Western 5629, or the failures of several rail museums over the decades.

But the first thing it could use right now might be a more competent and literate "spokesperson." (And that is offered as constructive criticism, not an "attack.")


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:32 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2423
Without getting into the whole mess of who this group is and what kind of funding they have etc. I can say this.

IF, and it's a huge IF, somebody was to get NS on board, this would be possible. No, you don't have to cut in a switch. The UP demonstrated how to do it when they pulled the Big Boy out. The track could be temporarily cut over to pull it back onto the mainline.

The expense would be significant, and so would the inconvenience to the railroad. Pretty much the only hope is that they see it as a community good will / advertising opportunity, and then it becomes an option. Don't forget, these are folks who buy TV commercials on a regular basis. $100K isn't a big deal to them, -if-, and again, it's a huge if, they see the value in it.

Do I think it's likely? No, not really. Do I think it's possible? Maybe. Sure would be nice to see her run on her home rails on the B&LE some time.


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8294
Location: Baltimore, MD
Bobharbison wrote:
IF, and it's a huge IF, somebody was to get NS on board, this would be possible. No, you don't have to cut in a switch. The UP demonstrated how to do it when they pulled the Big Boy out. The track could be temporarily cut over to pull it back onto the mainline.


The "fly in the ointment" is that the "adjacent" main line is CSX (ex-B&O), not NS, and it's a good haul, in both distance and elevation (50+ feet), to the "nearest" NS access, the Ohio Connecting Bridge upstream a ways (looking about two-thirds of a mile on my map).

Realistically, the only way that's getting out easily is via CSX (but will CSX play along?), or a lot more work to the P&OC (run by Genesee & Wyoming, about 20 feet higher), then backtrack over the P&OC to the NS connection at the OC Bridge. Or by truck. Or, heck, if someone finds the right barge.

CAN it happen? Certainly. WILL it happen? I'll pay attention again if and when it is announced all the necessary "ducks" are "lined up" in a row.


Last edited by Alexander D. Mitchell IV on Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:14 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2423
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:

Realistically, the only way that's getting out is easily to CSX (but will CSX play along?).


That depends on who's asking and how it's "sold". If it's a couple of foamers who have trouble coming up with money for lunch, forget it. If it's legit, and can be spun to put CSX in a positive light "Proudly preserving our communities heritage" then, maybe.


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1597
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Anyone who even casually follows the mainline steam topic knows that CSX has had an ironclad " no steam" policy for several decades now and they have made it abundantly clear that they are not interested in moving anything even approaching something out of the ordinary over their property.

The chances of them agreeing to split that main track to temporarily allow that now landlocked steam engine to enter their mainline and then move it over their property are non existent.

To add an exclamation point to the whole discussion today's news that CSX will be soon welcoming E.Hunter Harrison as their new CEO certainly does that. Harrison is rabidly anti-steam and issued orders the first day he was CEO at the CPRR to "put that damn steam engine in the barn and keep it there". His orders were followed and she hasn't seen daylight since.

Lord knows I'm a great believer in long shots but this is way beyond a long shot....it's way into no shot territory.

Sad but true. IMHO- Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:02 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 am
Posts: 48
What's with the constant personal attacks, Lenny?


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:44 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:04 pm
Posts: 8
Steel City wrote:
We're not going through CSX. We're going to use the short line who service's the industrial park, to take 643 and the rest out of the rocks. See Mr. Rowland you don't know everything, although you think you do.


Can you provide the name of the short line or at the very least how they can get access to 643? I'm looking at google maps and the only rail access by the looks of it is the CSX mainline. There is another track (Who I have no clue who owns it), but it goes over CSX with a bridge, so the elevation is probably WAY off for any kind of connection within reason.

For those that don't know, you can see 643 with google maps by searching this address: 101 Munson Ave, McKees Rocks, PA 15136


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:37 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 387
Location: Winters, TX
Aha, I see what you're talking about now. I just assumed that tail track was a part of the CSX. If you can snap track or lay a temporary track connecting up to that tail track, then you can haul it around and cross the bridge over the CSX tracks. Assuming that the 643 can negotiate the turns involved. Guess the one unanswered question is where would you take it to?


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